50 Players in Game

[Arturo Sanchez]

I completely agree Jazz. I think we have been hearing hints of this from Matt and Howard. From what I've heard in recent firesides and personal convos, at least those two seem to be on the verge of realizing it.

The major issue to what your saying is Eric. There's no way around it. I think he is the major problem for GOIO, and I think he is a bad influence on it. He holds a lot of power, sometimes more than Howard. When the lead designer is contradicting the CEO in firesides, or flat out saying "no, that's wrong", then you know you can't get around this guy. He does not care what the community wants. He doesn't care (or doesn't see) what GOIO needs. He cares about what he wants. Any back peddling will be minimal or rejected while the status quo sits. He is the responsible party for a lot of the changes over the years that have driven away the majority of vets. Where is Zill, sammy, salous, captain roy? Leaders of the old clans have all given up or been driven away. The bedrock of this game is the clans, and back peddling will help, but not without the source of the friction changing.

Honestly, I think Matt should have his job. I don't know what technical skills he has, but he is a good manager, he knows what's really happening in-game and in the community, and he does listen to feedback.

So basically Eric thinks he's Kojima but he's actually David Kage. But iunno, is he really that bad? Is it for certain that all of these poor moves comes directly from him?

[Byron Cavendish]

I don't think he is responsible for every bad decision. The difference between him and say, any other dev, is that they are not so completely self confident in thinking they can't make mistakes. Howard is very open to admitting when something was a bad idea, and changing it. Eric thinks everything he does is right, that he has the right to make the changes he wants, and he could care less about our feelings on the matter. Watch firesides for awhile, or look at his old posts (because he won't post anymore, he doesn't like criticism).

Most of the posts I could find:

1. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,38.msg1603.html#msg1603

2. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,551.msg9253.html#msg9253

3. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,771.msg18772.html#msg18772

4. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1583.msg27898.html#msg27898

5. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1775.msg32289.html#msg32289

6. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1776.msg32287.html#msg32287

7. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1882.msg33202.html#msg33202

8. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2012.msg35782.html#msg35782

9. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2012.msg35341.html#msg35341

10. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2058.msg37183.html#msg37183

11. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2007.msg37101.html#msg37101

12. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2058.msg37654.html#msg37654

13. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2358.msg40775.html#msg40775

14. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2358.msg40347.html#msg40347

15. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2674.msg45569.html#msg45569

16. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2674.msg45563.html#msg45563

17. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2674.msg46129.html#msg46129

18. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2758.msg47265.html#msg47265

19. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2760.msg47459.html#msg47459

20. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2758.msg48363.html#msg48363

21. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2758.msg48358.html#msg48358

22. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3014.msg52104.html#msg52104

23. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3014.msg52100.html#msg52100

24. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3014.msg52147.html#msg52147

25. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3014.msg52125.html#msg52125

In this one he tried to pass off blame onto the very community that never wanted this feature. HMMMM...

26. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3254.msg55956.html#msg55956

27. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3254.msg55951.html#msg55951

28. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3035.msg55180.html#msg55180

29. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3426.msg61206.html#msg61206

30. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3426.msg67371.html#msg67371

31. https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3902.msg68102.html#msg68102

[Arturo Sanchez]

He comes off as taking the "I know more info about the game data than you hence I am making the more informed decision."

Not even considering that he might be incorrect in said decision. Also I wonder if he'll get off his high horse if he actually shares this data to the community to then be disgust.

But I don't think he'll share, 1. because sharing that stuff is kinda iffy but 2. he loses his edge in arguments.

[SiepeAssassina]

He needs to step down from his throne or this game will collapse. In its current state Guns isn't appealing to casual/new player nor to veterans/hardcore/old players.
I don't think this is community's fault as we all provided tons of constructive feedback.
We INVESTED time on this game, hoping to see it improving day after day hence the immense saddness in seeing that small counter ticking the time of GoIO's life.

[BlackenedPies]

HiPPO Syndrome You can't rely on the highest paid person's opinion

[Arturo Sanchez]

As the situation seems.

All we can do is hope we don't have to say I told you so (by then its too late). We've been discussing this game for years and have covered every practical option.

But in the end, it's muse's game. Don't like it (and slowly becoming the case), make your own and do it better.

Or in higher likeliness find a better game (apparently the asian company they refused in the early days made a clone so maybe...)

Will you be the captain that sinks with the fleet?

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Muse makes game
Players play game
Players become vets
Muse nerfs game
Vets leave game
Muse scrounges for players
Players want competitive
Vets not around anymore to manage competitive
Players leave game
Muse closes game

Ultimately, the private server move may be a sign that Muse has had it with managing GOIO. If you can't make people happy, just give them the tools to make themselves happy. If we can host custom servers with any mutators we want, we ultimately decide what is meta and what isn't. Muse doesn't have to bother anymore. The community wins and Muse  gets a much needed reprieve. This is really something that should have been done long ago. In fact myself and others suggested the same thing back then. See I come from UT99 background with a healthy modding community and custom servers. I saw how powerful those were with keeping a game alive long past it's prime. Games without private hosting, that run only via the parent company, never last.

[Byron Cavendish]

^

[Arturo Sanchez]

but will it come out on time?

also don't private servers have an issue in regards to cheating?

[Terrkas]

Should just go with the philosophy behind Japanese/asian game design.

I'm sorry my game is too hard for you. We look forward to your next purchase.

I mean imagine dark souls becoming easier just because people were too dumb to play the game. When a game is hard but fair (that being said guns isn't that hard), it shouldn't be made easier since the fairness becomes a joke.

Guns fundamentally stresses the importance of efficiency. That won't be taught via handholding with game modes and match making because the moment the match starts. You have to learn to get good in the first place.

Plus most vets do have a sense of fairness as they see fit.

Well, there are lots of ways to make dark souls easier. Like having  spells and playing with friends as phantoms.  And on the other side one can increase the difficulty with some items or by taking handicaps. Basically everyone can adjust the difficulty for himself, how he wants it with those options.

[sparklerfish]

To go back to the original topic, yes, I think the player count should be slightly more hidden.  This is something that turns off new players before they even play a match.  All this talk about how to make the game appealing is irrelevant if someone logs on, sees the game is "dead", and never even gives it a chance.

[Hoja Lateralus]

To go back to the original topic, yes, I think the player count should be slightly more hidden.  This is something that turns off new players before they even play a match.  All this talk about how to make the game appealing is irrelevant if someone logs on, sees the game is "dead", and never even gives it a chance.

On the other hand - Muse had 2 years to fix this. They didn't. So it is reasonable to think that perhaps something needs to be done, and we just wonder what might be that thing. Also everyone is interested in this. Muse, because money and because survival of skirmnish, vets because shorter matchmaker waiting times and (after a while) more chance of forming a 'middle class' of GOIO, people with 500-1000 games played, which would also mean less newbies in their matches, and of course newbies are interested because it means (potentially) longer life of novice lobbies and more players to play with, probably middle class players, which wouldn't perhaps stomp them as hard as vets supposedly do. 

*this - meaning low player count

[Squidslinger Gilder]

but will it come out on time?

also don't private servers have an issue in regards to cheating?

Ask Muse. Eric was teasing about it weeks back.

Yes private servers will likely mean cheating will finally happen. It's going to suck but its a small price to pay towards making a lasting game. Muse's overall dev work on GOIO would go from handling every aspect and balancing to just writing anti cheat stuff for servers. Unless of course they host their own still. Then main servers would be under Muse and be cheat free while private servers would be open.

[FranckM]

With how small the community is, most people know each other, so any cheater would be recognized quite fast.

[BlackenedPies]

How does cheating work in private vs public servers?