Carronades 1.3.2

[Captain Smollett]

I think the one thing everyone agrees on is the range being a bit too great on the blender currently.  Since most people don't think the gun is op but that something feels unbalanced about it, I think we should start with moving the range a bit shorter and work from there with baby steps.

Dev app testing anyone?

[Serenum]

Regardless of any of that, I dont know what you're trying to say to argue carronades are perfectly balanced.

The re-read my post and this time pay attention.
It's your problem.

[Echoez]

Those are not alternate, more powerful, and harder to execute strategies that the video Blueberry linked talks about.

The problem with that is that in this game everything is fairly straight forward with little difference to how it's used other than using ammo types to adjust engagement range, or boost effectiveness at close range.. all tools in the game have one or two uses at most as well.

All in all this game is a bit on the simple side and I doupt something like what's described in that video could be possible in this game.


For example, a Lumberjack will always pop your balloon and there is nothing else you can do with it, or some advanced move to excecute that will pop enemy balloons 'better' other than learning how to aim, and well as there is nothing else an enemy can do about it other than:

1. Hope your LJ gunner is horrible

2. Disable it till they get close

For the carronade it mostly relies on the pilot of the ship to keep it in just the right arc/range so you can keep them down while making it hard for them to return fire. There isn't much else you can do other than get in range and do the previously mentioned.

The enemies either:

1. Disable your gun

2. Call for help if you focus them to get the focus off of them so they can recover

I mean, I'm fairly simple minded as far as I know, but do enlighten me, is there something deeper that you can do with most guns in this game?

The only ways you can stop enemies from shooting at you are either staying out of their range or disabling their guns, that's all.

[IvKir]

how about a bit of defensive planning? drogue chute + impact bumpers. if you do eventually hit the floor the impact bumpers will reduce the ground damage that you are taking while your engies are tanking the baloon and hull, giving a major boost to the time you need for your ally to overpower them

The problem is - you CAN'T fix balloon, before carronade recharges.

Both, heavy and light, killing balloon faster, than engineer can repair it. One clip and poof - no more balloon for you. One main engineer can rebuild it, yap, but when he does it - carronades ready to shoot, and you have, like, 1\3 of balloon health.  So your engineer again rebuilding balloon. It's less painful, when, say, capn (on junker) and main engi rebuild it, and enemy has one light carronade - you can fly out this situation. But not against an heavy. That's practice for me.

[Echoez]

The problem is - you CAN'T fix balloon, before carronade recharges.

Both, heavy and light, killing balloon faster, than engineer can repair it. One clip and poof - no more balloon for you. One main engineer can rebuild it, yap, but when he does it - carronades ready to shoot, and you have, like, 1\3 of balloon health.  So your engineer again rebuilding balloon. It's less painful, when, say, capn (on junker) and main engi rebuild it, and enemy has one light carronade - you can fly out this situation. But not against an heavy. That's practice for me.

Same goes for the Lumberjack, I don't see your point, the Carronade is much more justified in doing it since it's the only extreme close range weapon (other than fire) and most ships can return fire to the blender even when their are destroying your balloon. If you got flanked on a heavier ship then I'm sorry but you deserve to go down. If it's reload gets even longer then it's practically rendered useless on a Golfish and it's already a ship with a very narrow gun selection.

Carronades promote teamwork between the enemy team and then even more teamwork on your team's behalf to counter theirs.

[IvKir]

Same goes for the Lumberjack, I don't see your point, the Carronade is much more justified in doing it since it's the only extreme close range weapon (other than fire) and most ships can return fire to the blender even when their are destroying your balloon. If you got flanked on a heavier ship then I'm sorry but you deserve to go down. If it's reload gets even longer then it's practically rendered useless on a Golfish and it's already a ship with a very narrow gun selection.

Carronades promote teamwork between the enemy team and then even more teamwork on your team's behalf to counter theirs.

I can counter Lumberjack by good piloting. And you need a combination of a good pilot and good gunner, to score long range hits. Of course, if this not the Dunes.)
And the Heavy Carronade, with heavy round, is really not so close range weapon. That a little closer range, than gatling, for example. And no, i don't see a point in getting longer reload time - that not the problem, i think. But a closer range - yes.

[Gambrill]

how about a bit of defensive planning? drogue chute + impact bumpers. if you do eventually hit the floor the impact bumpers will reduce the ground damage that you are taking while your engies are tanking the baloon and hull, giving a major boost to the time you need for your ally to overpower them

The problem is - you CAN'T fix balloon, before carronade recharges.

Both, heavy and light, killing balloon faster, than engineer can repair it. One clip and poof - no more balloon for you. One main engineer can rebuild it, yap, but when he does it - carronades ready to shoot, and you have, like, 1\3 of balloon health.  So your engineer again rebuilding balloon. It's less painful, when, say, capn (on junker) and main engi rebuild it, and enemy has one light carronade - you can fly out this situation. But not against an heavy. That's practice for me.

if you read what i put i didn't say it was a solution. i said it gave you MORE TIME for your ally to come and assist you. The balloon maybe down but drogue chute slowing your descent and impact bumpers reducing the damage. I didn't say that my tactics gave your balloon extra health and an armour upgrade.

[Imagine]

how about a bit of defensive planning? drogue chute + impact bumpers. if you do eventually hit the floor the impact bumpers will reduce the ground damage that you are taking while your engies are tanking the baloon and hull, giving a major boost to the time you need for your ally to overpower them

The problem is - you CAN'T fix balloon, before carronade recharges.

Both, heavy and light, killing balloon faster, than engineer can repair it. One clip and poof - no more balloon for you. One main engineer can rebuild it, yap, but when he does it - carronades ready to shoot, and you have, like, 1\3 of balloon health.  So your engineer again rebuilding balloon. It's less painful, when, say, capn (on junker) and main engi rebuild it, and enemy has one light carronade - you can fly out this situation. But not against an heavy. That's practice for me.

You can't really keep a hull up under constant gat fire either. What's your point?

[IvKir]

You can't really keep a hull up under constant gat fire either. What's your point?

I still can counter it by piloting and maneuvering, like going down, so much of the clip go into balloon. And i don't have this possibility when facing a blenderfish, well on most maps. I still can outmaneuver on some maps, and when enemy pilot is worse than me. But still...

if you read what i put i didn't say it was a solution. i said it gave you MORE TIME for your ally to come and assist you. The balloon maybe down but drogue chute slowing your descent and impact bumpers reducing the damage. I didn't say that my tactics gave your balloon extra health and an armour upgrade.

Yep, i know and used it, but... there is a problem in enemy's ally ship, who can hold my ally, until blenderfish finish me off.

[Gambrill]

You can't really keep a hull up under constant gat fire either. What's your point?

I still can counter it by piloting and maneuvering, like going down, so much of the clip go into balloon. And i don't have this possibility when facing a blenderfish, well on most maps. I still can outmaneuver on some maps, and when enemy pilot is worse than me. But still...

if you read what i put i didn't say it was a solution. i said it gave you MORE TIME for your ally to come and assist you. The balloon maybe down but drogue chute slowing your descent and impact bumpers reducing the damage. I didn't say that my tactics gave your balloon extra health and an armour upgrade.

Yep, i know and used it, but... there is a problem in enemy's ally ship, who can hold my ally, until blenderfish finish me off.

so you decided to get involved into a 1v1 with an ally nowhere near you against a disbler ship designed to excell at 1v1 but suffer in 2v1 / 2v1?

Also have you ever tried getting him to chase you and tarring him? if he's stupid enough to carry on going through he'll wreck his ship. if he moves away it gives you more chance to get out of there and hurt him a bit

[Echoez]

I can counter Lumberjack by good piloting. And you need a combination of a good pilot and good gunner, to score long range hits. Of course, if this not the Dunes.)
And the Heavy Carronade, with heavy round, is really not so close range weapon. That a little closer range, than gatling, for example. And no, i don't see a point in getting longer reload time - that not the problem, i think. But a closer range - yes.

There is a.. limit to what you as a pilot can do to avoid Lumberjack shots and that gun has so many of them, that it doesn't realy matter unless the enemy gunner can't hit a giant balloon soon enough. The only thing the pilot need to do is, nothing. Just don't move the ship while keeping it steady and on target, that's all, on ALL maps, not just Dunes.

Also the Heavy carronade has a significant 200 meter less range than a Gatling, wouldn't call that 'little' and none of the two guns is actually used at the absolute max range cause it's too hard to pull of properly. It could go back to 450 for all I care, but no less than it was in 1.3.1

I still can counter it by piloting and maneuvering, like going down, so much of the clip go into balloon. And i don't have this possibility when facing a blenderfish, well on most maps. I still can outmaneuver on some maps, and when enemy pilot is worse than me. But still...

So basically you are saying that you can't use your balloon as a shield against a gun that is used to destroy balloons? I don't get your logic here, of course you can't counter the Carronade the same way you can counter a Gatling (woudn't even call it counter since they can just follow you down as well if they are clever.)

This just further proves my point that people simply aren't used to dealing with disablers due to Gat/Flak/Mortar being so popular in the latest patches.

[Imagine]

You can't really keep a hull up under constant gat fire either. What's your point?

I still can counter it by piloting and maneuvering, like going down, so much of the clip go into balloon. And i don't have this possibility when facing a blenderfish, well on most maps. I still can outmaneuver on some maps, and when enemy pilot is worse than me. But still...

Sorry but, if you can outmaneuver someone coming at you with a gat, you should be able to outmaneuver someone coming at you with a Carronade.

[Gambrill]

You can't really keep a hull up under constant gat fire either. What's your point?

I still can counter it by piloting and maneuvering, like going down, so much of the clip go into balloon. And i don't have this possibility when facing a blenderfish, well on most maps. I still can outmaneuver on some maps, and when enemy pilot is worse than me. But still...

Sorry but, if you can outmaneuver someone coming at you with a gat, you should be able to outmaneuver someone coming at you with a Carronade.

since the gat has more rounds and quicker turning speed and more arc

[IvKir]

so you decided to get involved into a 1v1 with an ally nowhere near you against a disbler ship designed to excell at 1v1 but suffer in 2v1 / 2v1?

Also have you ever tried getting him to chase you and tarring him? if he's stupid enough to carry on going through he'll wreck his ship. if he moves away it gives you more chance to get out of there and hurt him a bit

Sometimes there no other way - i prefer Junker, so i can't outrun goldfish in this case... and, yap, tar is helpful, but.. not so often. Sometimes it's just flying near, using heavy rounds to topple... and that's enough, sometimes.

[IvKir]

There is a.. limit to what you as a pilot can do to avoid Lumberjack shots and that gun has so many of them, that it doesn't realy matter unless the enemy gunner can't hit a giant balloon soon enough. The only thing the pilot need to do is, nothing. Just don't move the ship while keeping it steady and on target, that's all, on ALL maps, not just Dunes.

Also the Heavy carronade has a significant 200 meter less range than a Gatling, wouldn't call that 'little' and none of the two guns is actually used at the absolute max range cause it's too hard to pull of properly. It could go back to 450 for all I care, but no less than it was in 1.3.1

Ya, there is a limit. But i still can pull some nice maneuvers. And not all maps - in Paritan Rumble, let's say, i can force "sniping build" to go into med-close range combat. Same on Ambush, of course if he's foolish enough to get himself in close quarters.

So basically you are saying that you can't use your balloon as a shield against a gun that is used to destroy balloons? I don't get your logic here, of course you can't counter the Carronade the same way you can counter a Gatling (woudn't even call it counter since they can just follow you down as well if they are clever.)

This just further proves my point that people simply aren't used to dealing with disablers due to Gat/Flak/Mortar being so popular in the latest patches.

Basically i'm saying that there a things, that i can do, to counter builds. Except for blenderfish - it's fast, so i cant outrun it. It's more maneuverable, so i can't make him turn to me the way i need, and i'm can't get high enough, because i'm must damage my balloon, thus making it's an easy target for incoming blender. And even if i'm get high, i cant get higher, than game allow me. And when we on same high... goodbye mah balloon. -_-

About disablers - you see, we have that build. It'll help us to get down some fishes, but... see my point, about difficulty.
Yes-yes, we know that you are pro. But there a lot of people, who don't. And who get trumped by easy blenderfish. Because it's easy and effective.