"Guns of Icarus" fans, holding game back.

[Pickle]

Part of the problem is that, when many new and inexperienced players lose to a well-organized team, they simply leave the match in silence. They don't learn from the defeat, nor make any attempt to improve. Instead, they try to find a game with other players closer to their own experience level, in order to find a "fair" fight. Many players who play online games don't actually want to play with other players. What they really want is to play against really smart AI. They have no interest in communicating with their fellow players, and when the challenge is too great, they prefer to turn down the difficulty instead of raising themselves to that level. This is not exclusive to GOIO, but rather is a shift seen in the culture of online gaming in general over the past decade or so.

I've often wanted to tell an opposing new pilot what he did wrong, but he's switched out of the match so fast there's no opportunity.  Too many new players don't hang around unless they're winning.  Of course, the frequent connection drops and just plain old bugginess of the servers at the moment isn't helping.  Maybe their not all rage quitting, perhaps the weaknesses of the servers could also be considered part of the problem.  Some stability is required, and quickly.


I had a great series of games the other night with Zoo.  There was noone else we knew available to play with, so he and I each took a Pyra and had at least two L1 players on each crew.  One of my L1 Gunners was pretty good, and I adjusted the ship after the first match to favour his style.  He thanked me at the end of the session for his first ever winning streak.  That felt good.

It's really nice to get a new player that plays the team game.. ..

[Chango]

This post is a failure.
Not a stacked team with Firestone.

The problem isn't stacked teams, it's static teams.
I love a little newb bashing, I need deathless achievement.
But mix it up after. If you don't procure the next generation of your crewmates, your grease monkeys will be all gray.

Morbie and I did this exact thing the other night. Ravaged the other team a round or two, then went opposing. You learn more flying against the best than riding in their shadow.

[Morbie]

Morbie and I did this exact thing the other night. Ravaged the other team a round or two, then went opposing. You learn more flying against the best than riding in their shadow.

I do generally find that's the best way to go about things ^^

[Charon]

Playing with a team is just about the only way to get a win in my time zone. I get nothing but Russians that respond with "Mother puck you" (the p is actually in there) when you try to communicate. Other than that, they have fun slamming into rocks and generally being worthless: I mean it, they actually videotape themselves playing like this and post the videos in video blogs where they're applauded for their worthlessness.

[HamsterIV]

Playing with a team is just about the only way to get a win in my time zone. I get nothing but Russians that respond with "Mother puck you" (the p is actually in there) when you try to communicate. Other than that, they have fun slamming into rocks and generally being worthless: I mean it, they actually videotape themselves playing like this and post the videos in video blogs where they're applauded for their worthlessness.

I have notices some Russians like playing bumper cars and cursing in English. Usually a double merc Pyramidion can net you some easy kills in that situation. Though your Russian teammate will be a bit confused as to why you are not playing bumper cars with the rest of them. I find having the following on a piece of paper next to your computer helps:

Left - slevo
Right - pravo
Front - speride
Back - zadni
Repair - patchine
Shoot - strelet
Hull - corpus
Balloon - shar

These probably aren't the best translations, and most Russians ask me to stop abusing their language, but it is only fair considering what they do to English.

[Charon]

Copying that one down. S!

[Captain Magellan]

I love to help out and teach new crews, and it's basically how I spent the day of the sale. But it is SO difficult. I have to sit in the lobby and explain how the game works, 'cause they refuse to read the game manual (pretty sure NONE of the people I told that to (easily over 50) read the manual. Same response from all of 'em, "nah."), and then spend 30 seconds at the beginning of the game talking like a southern at 3000 words a minute explaining my strategy to them. LOTS of work, and most of the time, not relaxing. Especially when they fail, though most of the time, they turn out to be shining crew members. Which is what I love.

I don't play with the noobs to even out the teams, I play with them to give them some guidance so THEY can even out the teams. I did not get this guidance when I started and I played against "stacked" teams (though not really, just higher level. That term is being thrown around a little too generously) with NO help and I had about 70 deaths before I got my first kill. I learned from my mistakes and learned how to beat these stuck up high levels. No I am enjoying a 480 some kills to 370 some deaths.

But your so called "proof" or statistics is not very good at all. You made faulty a assumption that the people who bought the bundle, played this game, and even if they did, left because of "stacked" teams. You did not phone call each one and ask him why he doesn't play it. I have tried to convince a lot of my friends to purchase this game but many of them were completely uninterested in the game.

Also, the amount of people playing the did not decrease it all, it increased by a good 1000% (at least). Before the purchase it was pretty often that I had mostly AI crew. Now people don't like to start a game unless they have full crews.

Yep, completely useless rant is over.

[N-Sunderland]

That post is more than deserving of a salute, Magellan.

[Captain Magellan]

ERMAGEHRD I HAVE TWO SALUTES.

[Phoebe]

It kind of goes both ways.

For the most part people who choose to play a certain game are somewhat determined to at least learn the basics;- and I'd say the majority of these players will fare just fine through trial and error.

What doesn't work is when you;- as more experienced player - try to help them out and end up overflowing them with information they don't yet need to understand or learn;- I've witnessed a good example of this yesterday.

I remember that I really had no clue on my first match.  I didn't know how repairing something worked;- or even how to tell what is being damaged.   I didn't know what kind of damage I was dealing with a gun;- and I was falling off ships constantly trying to navigate from battle station to battle station;- exploring ships even in times of stress.

It is perfectly understandable when you have a pretty fresh crew just out of the crib trying to figure the game out that you get a little frustrated or annoyed - but games can last as quick as 5 minutes and generally do not last very long;- so it's a good sacrifice to make to just keep your head cool and give them some time to explore while you just point out the very basics they might be needing to know at the moment.

A completely new player does not need to know what a goldfish is or that flak cannons are best used to take out enemy weapons.   New players do not really need to be told just yet to take a certain ammo type because it's good.  For their first couple of matches we just need to have that little bit of patience to let them figure out some things on their own and get accustomed to the keys and controls - then how to seat a weapon; how to start repairing something.

That always has been and will be the best approach to welcome new players into your game;- people who you consider the biggest noobs on your crew are potentially your best friends and most skillful players a couple of weeks down the road;- all they need is a little bit of time.

People who can't figure the game out; can't handle someone getting a little impatient with them and people who do not have the basic interest in this game to search for a manual; forum guide or seek out the help of a CA or any player at all probably are not the target audience for this game after all.   Now it would be a really bad marketing approach to not care about these players and motivate them to play Guns of Icarus Online;- but you catch my drift.

My advice goes -

If you're the type of person that doesn't mind or even likes to help other people out;- please take into account their learning curve and maximum attention span to detail.  Take it slow; just hit them with a couple of basics and leave some of it for them to learn on their own.   Don't tell them what is good and what is not good before they know how to use it in the first place.

Chances are you will only stress them out with too much information that isn't important yet and then get frustrated because they don't show immediate improvement on basics - a common phenomenon where you might have the impression they are just really not listening to you while they're just confused and unable to distinct what is good and helpful from what is fundamental.

If you're the type of person that simply can't stand having to deal with crew members who don't understand the game yet;-  don't lash out or let them know you're frustrated.  They'll get the hang of it.  Games only last anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes and rarely go much longer than that so just suck it up and see it as a challenge on your own performance before heading out and finding a new lobby for your next round.

[Aythreuk]

But your so called "proof" or statistics is not very good at all. You made faulty a assumption that the people who bought the bundle, played this game, and even if they did, left because of "stacked" teams. You did not phone call each one and ask him why he doesn't play it. I have tried to convince a lot of my friends to purchase this game but many of them were completely uninterested in the game.

Just because 11k people bought the bundle does not mean they bought it for GOIO either

I knew this point would come up, feel free to knock off a few thousand from that number, it doesn't really affect it that much.

Even if you knock that number down to 5,000, which is ridiculous by the way. The handful of people who actually play still reflects the games poor retention rate. You guys are pointlessly nit-picking.

Although, I already responded to this, as quoted, you didn't take the time to read, so I don't know why I'm taking the time to reply.

[Squash]

Even if you knock that number down to 5,000, which is ridiculous by the way. The handful of people who actually play still reflects the games poor retention rate. You guys are pointlessly nit-picking.

Although, I already responded to this, as quoted, you didn't take the time to read, so I don't know why I'm taking the time to reply.

...you just ignored 99% of the posts, picked one single one to respond to, then accused everyone who isn't you... Of nit-picking.

[Lord Dick Tim]

Ok the arguments are beginning to become circular, it's time to pump the brakes and forget about any insulting details that might have been traded back and forth.

Insanity check

Q:  Is GOI a difficult to approach game with a moderately steep learning curve?
A:  Yes

Q:  Do the majority of the player base use the tools available to them to decrease the entrance level difficulty?
A:  No

Q:  Do players with increased ability to communicate with each other play together more often?
A:  Yes

Q:  Do a large majority of "veteran" players fall into this category?
A:  Yes

Q:  Does a steep learning curve, followed by rapid defeat turn new players off to the game?
A:  Yes

We will do what every community of gamers have always done.  Establish a core group of players who will form the perceived veteran core.  It will be difficult for new, less experienced players to perform and play at this level.

The absolute best thing we can do for new players is...

List what you are going to do, to help.  Let's be constructive, let's not nitpick, let's get something moving.

[Aythreuk]

Even if you knock that number down to 5,000, which is ridiculous by the way. The handful of people who actually play still reflects the games poor retention rate. You guys are pointlessly nit-picking.

Although, I already responded to this, as quoted, you didn't take the time to read, so I don't know why I'm taking the time to reply.

...you just ignored 99% of the posts, picked one single one to respond to, then accused everyone who isn't you... Of nit-picking.

I wouldn't exactly say that "you guys" = everyone
"You guys" in this instance referred to, you know, the people who were nit-picking.
Nice try though

*insert funny face from internet to make up for lack of an actual argument here*

[Jazzza]

Playing with a team is just about the only way to get a win in my time zone. I get nothing but Russians that respond with "Mother puck you" (the p is actually in there) when you try to communicate. Other than that, they have fun slamming into rocks and generally being worthless: I mean it, they actually videotape themselves playing like this and post the videos in video blogs where they're applauded for their worthlessness.

I have notices some Russians like playing bumper cars and cursing in English. Usually a double merc Pyramidion can net you some easy kills in that situation. Though your Russian teammate will be a bit confused as to why you are not playing bumper cars with the rest of them. I find having the following on a piece of paper next to your computer helps:

Left - slevo
Right - pravo
Front - speride
Back - zadni
Repair - patchine
Shoot - strelet
Hull - corpus
Balloon - shar

These probably aren't the best translations, and most Russians ask me to stop abusing their language, but it is only fair considering what they do to English.

This might be of interest to you: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,231.0.html