Balance ideas for Pyramidion and Junker

[Mezhu]

I also think the Heavy Carronade needs a nerf or a Junker balloon needs a buff as as it stands the Junker is very easily countered and therefore is very unlikely to be seen. (Edit: As a core ship that is, it is still sometimes seen as a support ship)

I think it's pretty hilarious how up until 3 months ago consensus was Junker is op and goldfish is lowest-tier ship along with mobula, and now the community's oppinion have somehow shifted that junker needs a buff and carronade (the most used gun for a goldfish) a nerf. Hilarious truly.

[Sammy B. T.]

The Junker is a wonderfully min maxed ship that is either super great in capable hands or underwhelming in average hands. High armor vs low perma and great damage vs horribly vulnerable to disable, just makes it a crazy ship.

[Crafeksterty]

Balancing these two ships is very hard.

I rather look at the squid, spire, goldfish some more.
Galleon and Mobula could use a little love. But thhose are pretty balanced allready.


For a first, i want the Squid to be respected, the squid needs a bit of help.
Once all ships are in good tone, then we can look at the incredibly hard to balance ships.

[GeoRmr]

Well, junkers have strong hard-counters since the flamer buff and the ship feels pretty balanced all-round imho. (it could perhaps do with a slower turn speed) The one bit of balance I would like to see is a slight armour and turn acceleration increase to the spire. I'm quite happy with all the other ships.

[Ayetach]

As far as pyras go I've always been fond of the idea of removing the 'sweet spot' for repairing the main thrust engine from below while handling the turning engines. Because of the longer time it would take the engies to fix all three engines it would force the pilot to have to use their tools more sparingly (i.e. Moonshine, phoenix claw, etc.) and strategically when flying into an engagement.

This might solve the pyras moving or turning too quickly, its debatable sure but if there was any reason to give other ships a level playing field with the pyra then this might be one viable option.

[RomanKar]

Anyone who thinks Junkers are still meta haven't been paying attention.

[GeoRmr]

Haha, only because the mandarins have stopped playing, and no one else can be bothered to practice that playstyle.

[Frogger]

It takes a lot of effort and very dedicated crew to make junkers shine. On the Mandarin junkers, all three crew positions had very specific routines which had to be trained in order for the ship to work at maximum output. Positioning is also crucial, as once a double junker team's formation is broken by a disable-heavy team, it becomes very difficult to survive, let alone win, an engagement.

Once the crew and piloting requirements are met, however, the junker probably has the most versatility and highest overall performance of any ship in the game. It is this high skill ceiling that makes it such a dangerous ship in the right hands. I would most certainly disagree with all those who think that the junker is in need of buffing, or that it is no longer meta or has a competitive role in the game.

[Queso]

I feel the lack of junkers is just a current meta shift. If that is the case, then it's just the sign of a healthy meta. If we never see junkers again, then we might have an issue. Take the squid as an example of an unbalanced ship. We don't see it in competitive, which means it's probably more a balance issue than simply being out of the meta.

[RomanKar]

So no one plays junkers at the highest level, yet it is still the meta?

We need a new definition of meta.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Reset both ships back to the way they were before Muse nerfed them...then buff the other ships to compensate = problem solved. No more nerfing!

[Dutch Vanya]

Reset both ships back to the way they were before Muse nerfed them...then buff the other ships to compensate = problem solved. No more nerfing!

Do you really think balance is this simple? Or are you just making your same tired old point yet again.

[IvKir]

For my opinion and experience nor junker, nor pyramidion needed nerf. Junker is a very good ship and most of his strengths lie in good crew and coordination with team. If you buff this ship, then you get a biiiig problem, when experienced crew will be dominate upon all other ships.

Pyra, on other hand, is a good ship for new players. It's fun and easy, and in the hand of good pilot it's a killer ship. It also can work in different builds and roles.

[Puppy Fur]

I feel the lack of junkers is just a current meta shift. If that is the case, then it's just the sign of a healthy meta. If we never see junkers again, then we might have an issue. Take the squid as an example of an unbalanced ship. We don't see it in competitive, which means it's probably more a balance issue than simply being out of the meta.

I'll show you competitive squids! (once tar is ok to use again)

[Spud Nick]

I would like to see a squid win a match without a flamethrower or carroande.