Balance ideas for Pyramidion and Junker

[Echoez]

I could do without the massive tree trunk behind me on a Galleon tbh, not sure how to remove that realistically tho xD

Also people should stop trying to nerf whatever they see others use the most realy, even if you nerf the Pyra (which realy doesn't need any nerfing now that Gat/Mortar ain't as ridiculously powerful as it used to be) people will pick an other ship and then you will see people using it a lot, what will you do then, nerf the next ship?

Truth be told, Pyras are overused cause they are just simple to run in a public match as well as still relatively effective in competitive, Galleons reaquire a highly skilled crew to run properly, Junkers as well. Thanks to the way damage types work in this game the Goldfish will not always be preferred since it can't reliably kill a ship by itself and when it does, it's usually not within a reasonable ammount of time. Spires are still too squishy and most people will probably give up on them after 1-2 tries of getting instagibbed, same goes with most people that try the Mobula.

eh.. I guess I should admit that the Pyra is a bit too easy, but what can you even do to make it slightly harder to run without hurting the ship a lot realy? The ship is not outstanding by any margin.. it's just easier for newbies to run than other ships so most people end up using it later as well.

[Spud Nick]

The roles of the ships come into play a lot here as well. Not every ship is effective as a kill ship. Most of them operate better with a disabling build or some type of control setup. I think it is important to remember this when we talk about ship use.

[Dementio]

Feel free to let me know if I'm thinking about this all wrong cos I probably am.

Ok.

I for one am so ready for a change to the pyra.

I am absolutely so sick of being able to predict a loadout as soon as i see a pyramidion. As well as pretty much expecting to see pyramidions whenever I play. It's getting a little bit boring to be totally honest.

That's a player choose. It is the same to say that every goldfish is a blenderfish and every junker a metajunker or how every galleon is lumberjack/flak/hades on the one side with hwacha/carro other.

I do think that the hull 'sweet' spot is pretty stupid though either remove it or give the underused (UU) ships 'sweet' spots too.

Removing the sweet spot of tha pyra would nerf it. What's a pyra without speed?
But if that is removed than the galleon, mobula and squid sweet spots might be taken out too.

And some thoughts about other ships.
Spires are too squishy.
Galleons are too easy to disable and the view whilst pilot is quite obstructed, they are fat and slow, but perhaps too much so?.
Squids die too easily.
Goldfish are good on the whole tbh. Just co-ordinate with your co-engi. Since the side guns are by no means vital. Leaving 2 engis to do things.
Mobulas cannot cope under fire as there is only realistically going to be one engi on hull/balloon. Making them also too squishy. (Alternately pyra can still have a gun firing and still be tanky.)

All of these depend on the engagements.
A Spire could kill a metamidion in front it. Galleons can kill a ship more reliably than a metamidion or instantly disable everything as well as simply keeping the enemy out of combat by destroying its balloon. Squids should use their manouverbility to not die (of course hwacha and carronades are basic counters as well as they are for every other ship in the game). A Goldfish not using side guns loses a lot of potential.

And Mobula, I am going to say this once and I hope I don't have to repeat myself, because it is annoying that so many people call it a "squishy" ship:
In your average match a whole lot of 1 guy stands on either hull or balloon. On certain ships not even a mallet/spanner is on the balloon but a simple pipe wrench and the balloon buff which the Mobula, in my opinion, rarely needs as well as that more repair/rerbuild power with mallet/spanner on the balloon.
In a whole lot of ships, if you start tanking with 2 guys on hull and/or balloon you a probably going to die soon anyway. In case of Mobula there is probably a gunner or buff engineer on top deck that has the power to use guns to possible disable or even kill the enemy, saving the Mobula, instead of wasting time on a silly desperate attempt to survive a second longer. If the enemy is behind the Mobula so that the guns are ineffective and the pilot cannot bring them in arc in time, he fucked up, regardless of what ship is being used.
If not both hull and balloon are dying, but only one of these than it is no different from a pyra since at least 2 guns are shooting. And nobody dares to call the inferior pyra a "squishy" ship.

Oh and, phoenix claw on Mobula is useless, for Spires and Squids optional and on Junker it depends on wether you use an asymmetrical or not and how the engagement happens. If a Junker gets surprised from behind it's probably saver to bring phoenix claw since the Junker can hold it's ground a bit with the high armor.

[Echoez]

And Mobula, I am going to say this once and I hope I don't have to repeat myself, because it is annoying that so many people call it a "squishy" ship

Just to clarify, at least regarding my post about people getting squished in Spires and Mobulas, I was talking about why people pick what ships they do in Pubs with randoms and it's mostly true most people get asolutely wrecked in said ships.

[pandatopia]

I am unsure if a spire can outfight a pyra face to face.

Assuming the spire is double gat mortar hwacha or something, if the pyra dodges the hwacha (not terribly hard to do, with great downwards arcs on top guns and the verticalness of the spire), I feel they have a very high chance of winning the engagement.

[Dutch Vanya]

I am unsure if a spire can outfight a pyra face to face.

Assuming the spire is double gat mortar hwacha or something, if the pyra dodges the hwacha (not terribly hard to do, with great downwards arcs on top guns and the verticalness of the spire), I feel they have a very high chance of winning the engagement.

The spire can have a secret weapon that takes full advantage of how pyramidions work.

[Ultimate Pheer]

What would that secret weapon happen to be?

Sniping guns? Won't stay at effective range for long, because a Metamidion WILL go for the ram if the effective range of an enemy ship is larger than it.

[Richard LeMoon]

Just some random thoughts.

On the Pyramidian, all crew members are 2 seconds max away from the hull at all times. I think this is what makes them seem harder to kill. I know some pilots that actually fix their own hull. Both gunners have an easy jump to the hull, which should really be leg-breaking. My suggestion is to raise the catwalk railings so they can not be jumped, and top deck crew have to use the ladder to get down. This adds almost a second of travel time for the right gunner to the hull, and 1.5 seconds to the balloon gunner. It also puts them on level ground with the Spire and Galleon.

As far as hitting all the engines, I suggest leaving this aspect, but adding a twist. Lower the main engine so it is even easier to hit (and makes more sense being able to hit it in the first place), and actually add a second smaller engine over it. Reduce the main engine output by 1/3, but bring it back up with the power output of the smaller engine. Or, remove the one large engine and replace it with a stack of two equal small engines with 1/2 output. The engineer then has the choice of quick repair of three engines (2 seconds max) and losing some mobility, or a 5 second cycle, or bringing back a second engineer. I think we would see more use of the side guns with this change.


I think the junker is fine the way it is as far as guns and maneuverability. Its big weakness is its huger balloon. Its huge benefit is its tiny hull. I think it seems so tanky sometimes because half the shots miss. Once a Junker's balloon is down and all that lovely canvas becomes hull, they go down pretty fast. My suggestion to balance this out is simply by making more hull and less balloon. Make more of the framework around the balloon part of the hull hitbox. Make the under-slung sails a bit larger as well.

As other have said as well, 'buff' the other ships by adding more repair options and mobility. Move the Spire turning engines closer together, and add small ladder and platform to access the top engine from below.

Give the Mobula two more small engines on the top deck 'wings' and give it faster turning (a little slower turning than it has now if those top engines burn out). Add in an 'emergency repair' room down a ladder at the rear of the helm room that accesses both the hull and balloon, but nothing else.

Lower the Squid engine hotpoints so they can be more easily hit from below, and give the pilot back some ability to fix the hull.

[Crafeksterty]

For my 2 scents,

Give the Spire an acceleration buff from 3.00 to 6.00
This can help the spire use its body more, and react better versus shots like hades, rams or most importantly, get better positioning.

Squids vertical meneuverability needs to be almost that of a mobula so it has a second alternative to engines as a means of escape or approach.
This makes the squid almost hopeless to chase against, and when his engines are down a quick chute or hydro will still let the squid escape.


Mobula is pretty fine on my eyes as it is saturated enough to what it offers.

Most ships are allready saturated to the point of its own personality and use.
Like my example of the spire, if its so tower like, why cant it be difficult to hit? Not only that it should be easier to position with a cone like that than a long ship like galleon.
Or the squid, its fast and its weapons dont exactly combat a ship but an alternative that helps its allready fast meneuverability to swop around ships at all times or escape. Being extremely enviornment aware like it should be.