Spawn system feedback 1.3.4

[Thomas]

Well I watched a few fjords and canyon matches. Fjord actually seemed to fall into the 'spawning on top of each other category' where canyon played out like it always has (teams rush to the south of the canyon and keep engaging in that area). When red died, they'd have to respawn at the halfway point-ish, but blue was able to spawn on their tail. This was the case when the random spawns were in as well.

At fjords, ships respawned a little further, but the fighting seemed to flock towards the spawns, since they were still moderately close. This ended up with ships spawning at the same location one after another, which was a little comical to observe.

[Mod Josie]

This new system has the unfortunate side-effect of encouraging suicide runs, especially during CP matches. A Squid that rushes in and gets killed no longer has any penalty for doing so as they can spawn straight back in just yards from the point. In the old system they would be forced to make their way back into the centre, costing them valuable time. This system negates that necessity.

In addition, the idea that two enemy ships that you just destroyed can now warp-drive themselves immediately onto your six to catch you unawares is unthinkable. In a real combat situation, you would at least have the time and the foresight to see those ships as they made their approach. This is not the case if it is possible to spawn in immediately where you were and continue the fight.

While throwing a little curve-ball into the action and pacing of the game is a good idea - this is just too eclectic. A good ship doesn't have time between killing a powerful enemy and having it mortaring their hull to pieces. They don't have the time or the space to repair before the next onslaught. This is completely unfair on that ship. It penalties them for being successful in the dogfight and gives the unsuccessful ship the ability to finish off their killer before they've had time to blink and repair their components.

I played a few hours-worth of matches with many close clanmates tonight, and we made a pact between captains not to spawn in too close because it ruined the strategy and fun of killing and being killed. If we are forced to do that to make it fun then something is deeply wrong - let alone the fact that the system is too easy to abuse.

[Dutch Vanya]

At the very least choosing spawns could be a match setting like scramble right?

[RearAdmiralZill]

At no point should there ever be a choice of spawn system. It would just lead to people making lobbies with whichever spawn system benefited their strategy. Not everything can have an option unfortunately.

[Mod Josie]

At the very least choosing spawns could be a match setting like scramble right?

I wouldn't mind seeing that - the idea that there is a specific game type that is designed for more rapid, fast paced and high octane play is a great one. However, its place is not the regular deathmatch.
It is guaranteed that your enemy will abuse their power to warp in to right where you just killed them, giving you next to no advantage for killing them in the first place. It is guaranteed that they will spawn exactly where they need to, almost giving them an advantage for dying first. How is that even resemblant of 'fair' or tactical?

[Dutch Vanya]

It was more an idea for a temporary solution for people that really don't want to use it. While the system is being tested and refined.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Well if that's the case, then it shouldn't of been put in if it was unfinished to begin with. No offence to anyone of course.

[Mod Josie]

On the face of it:
If during the First World War it had been possible for a taskforce of soldiers to suddenly appear out of nowhere without prior warning or detection behind the enemy's lines - it would have been a tactical outrage and would have swung the war.
I see no difference between spawn choosing (in its current iteration) and that short allegory.

[Zander Broda]

i was in the match Jacob mentioned and while waterhazard wasn't so bad, the 3v3 CP match was just a fuster cluck the entire time. my ships voice chat was just filled with "OH GOD the *enemy ship* spawned right behind us!".

so my suggestion? when you die, make any 2 spawn locations available at random. Or make it so that if an enemy ship is within a certain distance, lets say one square of the map, that spawn point is no longer available to anyone.

[Puppy Fur]

Personally, until it's improved or removed, the game is not fun to play for me or my friends :c It's just really upsetting I can't play one of my favorite games...

[Spud Nick]

We know it's not perfect and are planning to make improvement on it over time.  There is some functionality that got missed between the lead time from engineering to design testing which we'll be adding in soon.

Most likely, the system will stay and move towards each map having a concept of "bases."  The concept is best demonstrated in the current Fjords and Canyons.  Teams will initially spawn in their 'base' and only have access to their side of the map's related spawn points.  Due to a lack of functionality, larger maps like Dunes has you initially spawn in a tight pack with your team but also allow you to spawn on the other side of the map.  This will likely change later.

Either way, we are open to your comments.

That should work to stop the crazy spawn flanking going on but still give players the choice to spawn closer or father away from the action.

[The Djinn]

I'd personally like to see it removed until a better implementation is found: having Brawler Pyramidions spawn directly BEHIND my sniping Spire is...annoying. I haven't played a KotH yet, but I'm concerned about those game modes as well.

My biggest pet peeve is that there's always an "ideal" spawn point and, unless a fight moves across the map, ships always come in from the same angle: the fastest approach from a spawn to the current fight. It makes fights predictable and repetitive, which I severely dislike.

I'd much prefer an automated spawn that doesn't take map "sides" into account, and instead relies on enemy proximity to keep spawns distant from the enemies (if no surviving ally is near them) or a moderate distance from enemies (if your ally is still in combat). This helps reset fights without leading to a constant stream of 1v2s (as if your ally is still in a fight you'll spawn closer to them than you would if they're also dead).

[Byron Cavendish]

The Gents may be refraining from competitive games for now until this is changed.

[Piemanlives]

I'd personally like to see it removed until a better implementation is found: having Brawler Pyramidions spawn directly BEHIND my sniping Spire is...annoying. I haven't played a KotH yet, but I'm concerned about those game modes as well.

My biggest pet peeve is that there's always an "ideal" spawn point and, unless a fight moves across the map, ships always come in from the same angle: the fastest approach from a spawn to the current fight. It makes fights predictable and repetitive, which I severely dislike.

I'd much prefer an automated spawn that doesn't take map "sides" into account, and instead relies on enemy proximity to keep spawns distant from the enemies (if no surviving ally is near them) or a moderate distance from enemies (if your ally is still in combat). This helps reset fights without leading to a constant stream of 1v2s (as if your ally is still in a fight you'll spawn closer to them than you would if they're also dead).

I personally like the idea of this, for instance after death the game chooses a spawn within a ring at x distance from enemy ships should an allied vessel be within x proximity of an enemy vessel, should an allied vessel not be within x distance of an enemy vessel the game chooses a spawn within a ring x distance of an allied vessel.

[Chango]

Spawn Selection needs to be taken out of the maps were 'bases' have not been pinned. I tried 4v4 tonight and it was pure chaos. I would hotfix those map's spawn select asap because it has made those maps broken.