Spawn system feedback 1.3.4

[Crafeksterty]

AWKM:

This post was merged and I messed it up.

This is my initial message:

We know it's not perfect and are planning to make improvement on it over time.  There is some functionality that got missed between the lead time from engineering to design testing which we'll be adding in soon.

Most likely, the system will stay and move towards each map having a concept of "bases."  The concept is best demonstrated in the current Fjords and Canyons.  Teams will initially spawn in their 'base' and only have access to their side of the map's related spawn points.  Due to a lack of functionality, larger maps like Dunes has you initially spawn in a tight pack with your team but also allow you to spawn on the other side of the map.  This will likely change later.

Either way, we are open to your comments.



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Craftersky original:


Ok so in the Dev app i thought it was obvious how the spawning just spawned ships inside the battle. But oh look, they still can!

There are Pros and there are Cons to spawning close to battle but in all seriousness, this is incredibly cheap.
No ship has breathing time after a kill, as soon as you kill someone you have 15 seconds to be on your top and you are allready fighting someone again. This then escelates to a meatgrind from both sides.

Red dies, blu dies, red dies blu dies. Red dies blu dies, red dies, blu dies RED dies.

Please tell me im not the only one who dislikes the current spawning mechanic. Spawning far away was a downer, but getting a lucky spawn too close was the problem, now look. "lucky" spawns all over the place. Not even snipers will get a breather.

Ive also noticed some spawns on the very middle, one time i spawned directly behind a pyra... as a spire... after he killed me... Wanna know what happened? He got mushed.
How about this, i just killed an annoying squid, and when i turn around. Oh there he is again, fully and more capable than me.

I AM way too early on this but like i said, i saw this on the dev app and it still is allowed.



However, i do see pubs having more fun (to a degree). The games are much quicker and gets right into it, but what other options exist now for deathmatch? I dont know how we can balance the spawning out to be atleast a bit predictable. Only allow them to spawn at their sides of the map? They get random selections of spawns? Right now you just turn around and see the same ship you just killed, fighting in only one area of the map.

[Sammy B. T.]

As I said in the dev app discussion for this feature, the enemy team getting a lucky spawn is far worse than your team getting an unlucky spawn.

[awkm]

We know it's not perfect and are planning to make improvement on it over time.  There is some functionality that got missed between the lead time from engineering to design testing which we'll be adding in soon.

Most likely, the system will stay and move towards each map having a concept of "bases."  The concept is best demonstrated in the current Fjords and Canyons.  Teams will initially spawn in their 'base' and only have access to their side of the map's related spawn points.  Due to a lack of functionality, larger maps like Dunes has you initially spawn in a tight pack with your team but also allow you to spawn on the other side of the map.  This will likely change later.

Either way, we are open to your comments.

[Byron Cavendish]

THIS.IS.HUGE. There will be so many split second strategies developing from this especially from the losing side. It will be a lot harder to defend an area but it can also make establishing dominant surprise sniping easier if we die. Suffice to say combat will be faster, more decisive, and riskier.

[Thomas]

Well, it's interesting. It certainly leads to much rougher engagements. You have contact, take out a ship, start focusing down the other and within 20 seconds that first ship is right on your butt again. Did some labyrinth with this as well, and that was pretty intense. There's almost no break in the fighting, and it's almost impossible to flip the point once one side captures it, since they return to it so fast to block.

[Sammy B. T.]

It is quite terrible both in implementation and concept.

1. There are seemingly no restrictions on proximity to other ships. This meant a brawl spire was able to spawn directly on top of my sniping ship. Brawling didn't just get a buff, sniping is now ridiculously under powered as you basically have to figure out an area without a spawn near it and as soon as you spawn, you have to run to it.
2. Even with proximity restrictions it is still a great buff to brawlers as it allows them to decide where to attack from.
3. If you implement a base type strategy, it massively buffs campers. If you're stronger on the right, you stay on the right, and vice versa. That would slow down the game massively.

I'm really upset that the conversation in the dev app was simply, how to implement choosing spawns instead of should we implement choosing spawns.

What is gained by choosing spawns? Every enemy spawn is now the worst case scenario spawn for you. I'll take a chance of an unlucky spawn over guaranteed superior enemy spawn.

[Gryphos]

I have to agree with Sammy for the reasons he stated. Instead of implementing a spawn choice system, it would simply be better to improve the random spawn system.

[Captain Smollett]

3. If you implement a base type strategy, it massively buffs campers. If you're stronger on the right, you stay on the right, and vice versa. That would slow down the game massively.

Didn't campers always have that advantage in the original system?

[Sammy B. T.]

There was still a chance they would be spawned on opposite ends of their side. Now they could always be right back to each other. It takes the previous advantage to whole new levels. Red Spawn in Canyon would be even more ridiculous.

[RearAdmiralZill]

*Disclaimer: haven't played yet.*

Campers are going to camp. No system would really fix that unless it was a total random spawn that could end up on any point of the map, which would never fly anyway. I'd like to think the idea of bases would create for fairly large areas around initial spawns (larger than we had before) with some logic in there making it so if blue gets into red's spawn and gets a kill, the red ship can't spawn nearby (aka in gun range).

Only other thing I could think of is if you are killed in your spawn base/area, then your spawn counter is x times longer. Then you make a choice and promotes leaving the initial spawn area, which in that case wouldn't be so huge.

[Sylas Firehammer]

I agree with what is being said by Sammy for sure. However, if the spawn choice is going to be implemented for sure, I think it definitely ought to have a way so that you can't spawn directly on enemy ships and have to instead take a spawn x distance away from an enemy. This can still give brawlers a balanced chance to get in close and make it tougher to snipe, but not make it downright impossible.

[awkm]

If spawns disable themselves based on proximity, then this tells you where enemies are.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I'd rather them know where I am then be right on top of me when they spawn.

[Alistair MacBain]

But is that really a problem?
If you have to spawn you already died to him ...
So where does that influences the game? You already lost once to him when you have to respawn.

[Regule]

I had a situation in game when after my team managed to defeat both opponents in 2v2 at once
they spawned right on us.  That means we had about 15 seconds to make our ships fully operational
before two fresh ships "blinked" on us from thin air. I think this is very bad as it punishes players
for doing good in the game and makes all kills besides last one much less relevant. At same time
it cancels out, or at least makes less important, need of retreat as you can tank and wait for other ship
to spawn near you as resp times are rather short.

So to sum up, I think this shift balance away from skill and more towards luck.