Author Topic: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere  (Read 67624 times)

Offline HamsterIV

  • Member
  • Salutes: 328
    • 10 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Monkey Dev
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2013, 05:04:20 pm »
One of these days I am going to have to do a Creed's Tactical Genius meme about stealth galleons.

See http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/creeds-tactical-genius for source of Creed's Tactical Genius meme.

Offline maitreya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 0
    • 1
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2013, 11:45:10 pm »
so

uh

I think I found a solution to the pyramidions and galleons being everywhere, the humble junker. It may lack the awesome ramming ability or super fire-power of either, but a setup with twin mercury field guns on one side plus gat-mortar on the other lets me disable and strip galleons at a range plus at least pepper charging pyras, then give them a truly punishing close-range engagement when they try to do running broadsides or brawling-rams. Notable weaknesses I've thought of being anybody smart enough to stay in that just-beyond medium range area where the mortar will be difficult to use or inexperienced gunners simply failing at merc-field use.

course, that's simply what I've come up with thus far, it's still quite vulnerable to squids and somewhat to good goldfish. Also, I've yet to figure out what to use on the front gun other than maybe an artemis, also considering putting a carronade somewhere on the thing.

Offline Machiavelliest

  • Member
  • Salutes: 35
    • 21 
    • 31
    • 29 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2013, 02:36:01 am »
In 1v1, I find the Squid to be an excellent Pyramidion slayer.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 12
    • [GwTh]
    • 12 
    • 45
    • 30 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2013, 07:44:38 am »
Has allways been like that, if squid captain was ile that, now even easier than pyramidions have slower acceleration.

Offline Sugar Honey

  • Member
  • Salutes: 0
    • [TBC]
    • 4
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2013, 10:35:59 am »
I find that my pyramidion setup alludes no weaknesses as everyone here would suggest. Turning with a pheonix claw would only destroy your engines if you're carrying an unbuffed ship and blind crewmates... both of which don't happen to me. Speed is no problem because moonshine will once again do nill to my excellent crew.

Au contrare, a balloon popper setup on a goldfish, a buffed galleon with a claw, and a junker with a claw and gat/flak will all kill a pyra.... given the crew manages the basic assets.

My personal favorite is the junker because it can strafe or circle on the blind side of the pyra and pepper them. Any attempt to readjust the ship on the enemy's part will only be met with repetition. Of course in any case, the individual skill of the crews and pilots play a large factor. Because I know the pyra in and out, less experienced caps can rarely win against me. 

Offline NikolaiLev

  • Member
  • Salutes: 4
    • [Fur]
    • 2
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2013, 05:41:29 pm »
Goldfish is ridiculously good against the Pyramidion, especially a close-range Goldfish that makes a habit of constantly getting on its blind spots with superior maneuverability, then exploiting its also superior firepower.  As long as the Pyramidion can't make use of ramming and exploit the Goldfish's inferior survivability, the Goldfish will make mincemeat out of the midion's balloon.

Offline Kestril

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 24
    • [Sass]
    • 33 
    • 36
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 05:48:18 pm »
'Midions are hardly invincible. Just don't expect to fight the pyramid's fight and come out on top.  A long-range sniper spire can destroy a pyramid before it gets within effective range. As mentioned a more maneuverable boat will  crush a 'midion if they maneuver carefully and survive the first initial pass.

Offline Letus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 34
    • [SAC]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 33 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2013, 06:21:51 pm »
Goldfish is ridiculously good against the Pyramidion, especially a close-range Goldfish that makes a habit of constantly getting on its blind spots with superior maneuverability, then exploiting its also superior firepower.  As long as the Pyramidion can't make use of ramming and exploit the Goldfish's inferior survivability, the Goldfish will make mincemeat out of the midion's balloon.

Or even guns and engines...pending on what the front gun is there.

A hwatcha and lumberfish team, if coordinated well, can easily stop two pyramidions.

Offline MasX

  • Member
  • Salutes: 26
    • [Gent]
    • 8
    • 11 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2013, 03:19:47 pm »
id never touch one of those ships

Offline Goldensteev

  • Member
  • Salutes: 0
    • 1
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2013, 08:48:35 pm »
yeah i'm kinda sick of playing games vs teams of Pyrimidion + flak + minigun combo ...

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

  • Member
  • Salutes: 287
    • [TBB]
    • 31 
    • 34
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2013, 12:45:37 am »
Roll the game back to 1.1 and we'll see other combinations again. Specially a return to the old flamer ability and chem spray. But to be honest, even then Pyra was king. But before the 1.2 mess it was more about pilot skill, not ram fests like it is now.

Offline Kestril

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 24
    • [Sass]
    • 33 
    • 36
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2013, 12:56:00 am »
Roll the game back to 1.1 and we'll see other combinations again. Specially a return to the old flamer ability and chem spray. But to be honest, even then Pyra was king. But before the 1.2 mess it was more about pilot skill, not ram fests like it is now.

Um, ramming is harder to do now in the pyramid. So, it requires more skill to ram now than it did back in 1.1


Offline NikolaiLev

  • Member
  • Salutes: 4
    • [Fur]
    • 2
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2013, 01:19:07 am »
Roll the game back to 1.1 and we'll see other combinations again. Specially a return to the old flamer ability and chem spray. But to be honest, even then Pyra was king. But before the 1.2 mess it was more about pilot skill, not ram fests like it is now.

Um, ramming is harder to do now in the pyramid. So, it requires more skill to ram now than it did back in 1.1



Yeah, I'm... baffled by the supposition that piloting skill was more prevalent in 1.1.  I suspect it's innate resistance to change, but the ship speed rework was pretty much entirely beneficial.  The Pyramidion lost maneuverability it simply didn't deserve and turned into one of the worst turners in the game (which is good considering its excellent survivability, speed, and firepower, as well as its ramming capability), while other ships got adjustments they sorely needed (the Junker comes to mind).

The new speeds may have been harmful to the Squid, in that they could have shortened the disparity between it and other ships, thus devaluing its niche.  But I can't be sure of that.

I think once we start seeing the implementation of more piercing and more disabling weapons that surpass the Gatling Gun and Mercury in certain fields (whether they be disabling, armor peeling, raw damage output, or what have you) the meta will take on a new shape.

For instance, the Gatling Gun could remain an intermediate, medium-range hybrid weapon capable of disabling and defeating armor, while a new piercing weapon could be solely dedicated to destroying armor.  There could be one for close and long range.  There could be another medium range disabling weapon, while the Flamethrower could receive a buff to place it back in the "close-range disabler" niche (instead of the "joke weapon" niche it occupies presently).

The addition of these weapons would allow the Gatling Gun to be modified for a specific purpose.  It's currently the only close range armor piercing option, and it also deals shatter damage.  A weapon that dealt a lot more piercing damage without the shatter damage would be good for pure killing setups, but you'd lose out on disabling potential.  So there'd be choice.

Meanwhile, buffing the Carousel (and perhaps even the Mortar, slightly) should present more options instead of the Light Flak.  I mention the Mortar because, as it does deal slightly more DPS, it's far less reliable and has a poorer effective range, not to mention an inferior rotation speed.  I don't think its slight DPS advantage is quite worth it; a little more, probably just 10 damage a shot would be enough to nudge it into competitiveness.  The Carousel could use a damage buff as well; however, buffing fire first would be advisable.  It stands to reason that the Carousel is similar to the Gatling, in that it has kill potential (explosive damage) and disable potential (incendiary change).  Unfortunately, there isn't a Mortar or Light Flak for Piercing damage yet.  But, this may change in the near future.

Finally, the fact Gat/flak is so popular is a possible indication that disabling in general is not effective enough.  While this is a dangerous pitfall, as disabling is not only loathed by developers and casual players alike for its anti-fun nature, it's also easy to become an optimal solution.  An enemy that cannot fight back is far easier to kill, even when lacking raw damage output.  As I recall, repair and rebuild times were rebalanced recently; this might be worth looking at.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 01:30:47 am by NikolaiLev »

Offline HamsterIV

  • Member
  • Salutes: 328
    • 10 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Monkey Dev
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2013, 04:02:21 pm »
The ability for a pilot's skill to carry a ship was more prevalent in 1.1. Back then I was rolling Helium, Chute vent, moonshine, and making a mockery of hwacha fire with last second dodges and lurking above/below Galleon's field of fires. Now I have to use tar barrel to get away like everyone else. The ratio of skill in to effectiveness out has been reduced a bit. As awkm says he doesn't play balance for high level players. Back when flamethrowers were a 1 stack disable the pilot skill to effectiveness ratio was even steeper.

It is easy to say the game is getting dumbed down for the new players, but to me it is just changing so that my old dirty tricks are not as effective and I have to find new ones. The latest involves backing up to an enemy ship and taring the crap out of it while laughing hysterically.

Offline Captain Smollett

  • Member
  • Salutes: 122
    • [Duck]
    • 11
    • 14 
    • View Profile
Re: pyramidions, pyramidions everywhere
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2013, 12:58:57 am »
Love me some reverse, stop, tar barrel followed by evil laughing maneuver.

Miss dodging around in my nimble pyra,

Believe it or not I used to call it dancing, and it fet like it when done correctly. Probably wasn't balanced but boy was it fun, and it definitely increased the skill gap.