Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: maitreya on May 18, 2013, 11:04:20 am
-
I'm not certain why, maybe it's simply a comfortable or easy style of play, but the pyramidion is everywhere. Yesterday, a crew and myself went about five battles where the other side changed captains every time and every time they were both pyramidions. On top of this, all but two of them had the gat-flack layout.
Perhaps it's a balance issue? I've only played a few weeks but there has been a consistent lean towards pyramidions in just about every round, minus a few where the winners were galleons with four hwachas. It got to the point I simply adopted using the pyramidion and overnight began winning relatively reliably.
TL;DR: how does one cull the pyramidion population
-
They're easy.
Just point and shoot.
And they have strong ramming.
Hwatcha and Lumberjack
A good hwatcha can take out their guns.
And a good Lumberjack can take out their balloon and hull rapidly...thus disarming one of those guns since that engineer is now focusing on either the balloon or hull.
Both require decent gunner and pilot skills.
-
I say this in the nicest way possible, but it is a very easy ship to fly and manage.
The design itself makes it very new player friendly, and for all of us, it's a good way to put points on the board. The front guns makes it so you just have to point the ship and shoot, and crewing one is also easy as besides the main engineer, the others aren't moving much. It has good stats for sustainability too, so it is forgiving of poor choices like splitting up from your teammate.
The gat/flak combo just culminated from its use of two front guns. It honestly is not the only combo that works up there, as I haven't used it since it gained popularity. People like it for its ease of use for the gunners, and results it provides in quick kills in comparison to other layouts.
I don't think it's OP in any way. It's something that works and has become popular over other strategies. While it does grow a little tiring seeing all pyras against you, they are not invincible. Their turning is slow compared to other boats, and they have perhaps the biggest blind spot of all boats in the game.
Of course, this is my opinion.
-
yeah, pyra is the most common because it is one of the easiest to captain and crew. two guns facing forward, despite having a deck division, vital systems are grouped together near the front, and all engines can be repaired with out stopping running around that back lower walkway.
in the current build, at least the pyra has the proper turning abilities before it had those two front guns and could turn like a junker can today :P
that being said, try using a junker that makes use of component breaking weps and the gat flak combo. or even a disable goldfish with support from your teammate(s) you should be able to take them down
-
I see more Junkers than pyramidions these days.
-
I see more Junkers than pyramidions these days.
I haven't been seeing nearly as many Junkers ever since the Artemis nerf.
-
I see more Junkers than pyramidions these days.
Being able to see a junker is rare as you have to squint through all that tar barrel now a days.....
-
Being able to see a junker is rare as you have to squint through all that tar barrel now a days.....
QFT :P
-
Being able to see a junker is rare as you have to squint through all that tar barrel now a days.....
QFT :P
These things.
-
In my opinion, calling a pyra overpowered is like calling Ryu/Ken in Street Fighter II overpowered. It's just an incredibly easy/standard way to play. It's very easy to pick up and learn, and when mastered, it's quite deadly. The same analogy can be carried to the gat/flak combo and the hadouken. It's not overpowered, it's just so standard that it will be used very very frequently in just about all of the matches. The thing is, when a game is so finely balanced, the combinations that are used the most appears to be overpowered because, statistically, you're much more likely to get shot down with them.
-
Gotta learn the Squid FADC to beat them.
-
Totally agree with Zill on this one. It has the most effectiveness out for least skill in. It is also one of the easiest to repair ships in the game with core components very close to guns. With the massive influx of new players I fly Pyramidion almost exclusively. I can give a bunch of new players a good experience without expecting them to learn the complexities of the ammo and shot drop.
It is also easy to teach crew specialization on a ship like the pyra. The balloon is so far away from the hull that it doesn't make sense for the hull engineer to leave his post to fix it. Likewise the flack/balloon engineer (where I normally stick the new guy) allows me to train one crew member in repairs and shooting without having to depend on them for mission critical stuff like the chain gun or hull repairs. Every one also gets a chance to shoot which will keep my hull engineer from getting board and doing something unproductive.
-
Now to figure out a counter to pyramidion that makes them horribly obsolete. Then again they do have that huge blind spot.
Feel the turning issue is largely removed by simply using Phoenix claw by the way, I've been able to easily out-turn goldfish with ease.
-
Keep in mind, if they have to constantly use claw, they are constantly damaging their engines. Eventually they have to stop or break their engines, each of which is in your favor.
-
There have been matches where I used claw constantly in labyrinth and been just fine, just having the engineer tap the engines now and again.
-
The Pyramidion used to be an excellent, all-rounder fighter type ship. Since its turn rate was made horrible, it's become much more balanced. But yes, it's still an all-rounder. It has drawbacks now.
I'd personally like to see a hull nerf; it definitely needs its current armor. But otherwise, as others have explained, it's not overpowered. It's just common.
Nerfing the turn speed a little and buffing its engine power would further specialize it as a ramming ship, but beyond that, any adjustments seem unnecessary. Just let it sit, there are better ways to change the metagame than nerfs and buffs, in this case.
-
I welcome it, because i can easily outmanouver them in my spire.
-
I welcome it, because i can easily outmanouver them in my spire.
If the other team has any idea what they're doing, they'll kill your Spire before you have a chance to even think about manoeuvring.
-
I welcome it, because i can easily outmanouver them in my spire.
If the other team has any idea what they're doing, they'll kill your Spire before you have a chance to even think about manoeuvring.
If the spire knows what they're doing, they can kill the Pyramid before the Pyramid has a chance to know what they're doing.
-
I welcome it, because i can easily outmanouver them in my spire.
If the other team has any idea what they're doing, they'll kill your Spire before you have a chance to even think about manoeuvring.
If the spire knows what they're doing, they can kill the Pyramid before the Pyramid has a chance to know what they're doing.
Grab a Spire, and I'll grab a Pyra. We all know that you're a better captain. I bet I'll win the engagement.
-
I welcome it, because i can easily outmanouver them in my spire.
If the other team has any idea what they're doing, they'll kill your Spire before you have a chance to even think about manoeuvring.
If the spire knows what they're doing, they can kill the Pyramid before the Pyramid has a chance to know what they're doing.
Grab a Spire, and I'll grab a Pyra. We all know that you're a better captain. I bet I'll win the engagement.
I never knew you thought of me like that! So, when's our wedding date...and were is the ring o//o?
-
I welcome it, because i can easily outmanouver them in my spire.
If the other team has any idea what they're doing, they'll kill your Spire before you have a chance to even think about manoeuvring.
If the spire knows what they're doing, they can kill the Pyramid before the Pyramid has a chance to know what they're doing.
Grab a Spire, and I'll grab a Pyra. We all know that you're a better captain. I bet I'll win the engagement.
I never knew you thought of me like that! So, when's our wedding date...and were is the ring o//o?
Whoa, slow down, I still haven't asked for permission from your parents.
-
Whoa, slow down, I still haven't asked for permission from your parents.
We don't need to! Vegas is cheap this time of year!
-
You two are just adorable.
-
Just because this thread is about Pyramidions doesn't mean we need a quote pyramid.
I'd say that keeping the claw on is pretty easy. 1 tap on the maneuvering engines with a mallet fully repairs. The Pyramidion seems like the Mario of the playable ship spread--it's the baseline to judge other ships against. I honestly think the Pyramidion itself, as a ship, is right where it should be to be fair but also tolerable for the crew onboard. The issues, which are generally small, lie with balancing the weapons and other ships against it.
-
I know I might have some bias, since I mostly pilot Pyramidions (ever since heavy Flak nerf made Golfishes pretty boring with only 2 viable weapons), but I think prya is just fine where it is (BTW is has as much perma hull as Squid does) as of 1.2. Since it is a close range ship, any reduction of hull, maneuverability and speed would be a crippling nerf. Junker can outturn Pyra, and if it posittions correctly easily outgun (othervise it's just barely) - on short to medium distances junker can even outrun Pyra (pyra has one of the poorest accelerations now- i think second worse only to galleon).
-
Its just the standard it seems.I like Junkers and goldfishes better. and usualy do very well against Pyras... though seeing one Every match is a little borring...
-
Take a galleon out for a spin and you'll see pyras drop like the Hindenberg.
-
Take a galleon out for a spin and you'll see pyras drop like the Hindenberg.
That only works if the galleon's gunners can shoot strait. The pyramidion's guns are far more forgiving of bad gunnery, and the ability to control distance while attacking puts it ahead of the junker and galleon in my book. Regardless of the ships strengths and weaknesses it is the skill of the crew and captain that determine victory.
-
The counter to metamidions is stealthgalleons, as Hamster and I found out last night ;)
-
One of these days I am going to have to do a Creed's Tactical Genius meme about stealth galleons.
See http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/creeds-tactical-genius (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/creeds-tactical-genius) for source of Creed's Tactical Genius meme.
-
so
uh
I think I found a solution to the pyramidions and galleons being everywhere, the humble junker. It may lack the awesome ramming ability or super fire-power of either, but a setup with twin mercury field guns on one side plus gat-mortar on the other lets me disable and strip galleons at a range plus at least pepper charging pyras, then give them a truly punishing close-range engagement when they try to do running broadsides or brawling-rams. Notable weaknesses I've thought of being anybody smart enough to stay in that just-beyond medium range area where the mortar will be difficult to use or inexperienced gunners simply failing at merc-field use.
course, that's simply what I've come up with thus far, it's still quite vulnerable to squids and somewhat to good goldfish. Also, I've yet to figure out what to use on the front gun other than maybe an artemis, also considering putting a carronade somewhere on the thing.
-
In 1v1, I find the Squid to be an excellent Pyramidion slayer.
-
Has allways been like that, if squid captain was ile that, now even easier than pyramidions have slower acceleration.
-
I find that my pyramidion setup alludes no weaknesses as everyone here would suggest. Turning with a pheonix claw would only destroy your engines if you're carrying an unbuffed ship and blind crewmates... both of which don't happen to me. Speed is no problem because moonshine will once again do nill to my excellent crew.
Au contrare, a balloon popper setup on a goldfish, a buffed galleon with a claw, and a junker with a claw and gat/flak will all kill a pyra.... given the crew manages the basic assets.
My personal favorite is the junker because it can strafe or circle on the blind side of the pyra and pepper them. Any attempt to readjust the ship on the enemy's part will only be met with repetition. Of course in any case, the individual skill of the crews and pilots play a large factor. Because I know the pyra in and out, less experienced caps can rarely win against me.
-
Goldfish is ridiculously good against the Pyramidion, especially a close-range Goldfish that makes a habit of constantly getting on its blind spots with superior maneuverability, then exploiting its also superior firepower. As long as the Pyramidion can't make use of ramming and exploit the Goldfish's inferior survivability, the Goldfish will make mincemeat out of the midion's balloon.
-
'Midions are hardly invincible. Just don't expect to fight the pyramid's fight and come out on top. A long-range sniper spire can destroy a pyramid before it gets within effective range. As mentioned a more maneuverable boat will crush a 'midion if they maneuver carefully and survive the first initial pass.
-
Goldfish is ridiculously good against the Pyramidion, especially a close-range Goldfish that makes a habit of constantly getting on its blind spots with superior maneuverability, then exploiting its also superior firepower. As long as the Pyramidion can't make use of ramming and exploit the Goldfish's inferior survivability, the Goldfish will make mincemeat out of the midion's balloon.
Or even guns and engines...pending on what the front gun is there.
A hwatcha and lumberfish team, if coordinated well, can easily stop two pyramidions.
-
id never touch one of those ships
-
yeah i'm kinda sick of playing games vs teams of Pyrimidion + flak + minigun combo ...
-
Roll the game back to 1.1 and we'll see other combinations again. Specially a return to the old flamer ability and chem spray. But to be honest, even then Pyra was king. But before the 1.2 mess it was more about pilot skill, not ram fests like it is now.
-
Roll the game back to 1.1 and we'll see other combinations again. Specially a return to the old flamer ability and chem spray. But to be honest, even then Pyra was king. But before the 1.2 mess it was more about pilot skill, not ram fests like it is now.
Um, ramming is harder to do now in the pyramid. So, it requires more skill to ram now than it did back in 1.1
-
Roll the game back to 1.1 and we'll see other combinations again. Specially a return to the old flamer ability and chem spray. But to be honest, even then Pyra was king. But before the 1.2 mess it was more about pilot skill, not ram fests like it is now.
Um, ramming is harder to do now in the pyramid. So, it requires more skill to ram now than it did back in 1.1
Yeah, I'm... baffled by the supposition that piloting skill was more prevalent in 1.1. I suspect it's innate resistance to change, but the ship speed rework was pretty much entirely beneficial. The Pyramidion lost maneuverability it simply didn't deserve and turned into one of the worst turners in the game (which is good considering its excellent survivability, speed, and firepower, as well as its ramming capability), while other ships got adjustments they sorely needed (the Junker comes to mind).
The new speeds may have been harmful to the Squid, in that they could have shortened the disparity between it and other ships, thus devaluing its niche. But I can't be sure of that.
I think once we start seeing the implementation of more piercing and more disabling weapons that surpass the Gatling Gun and Mercury in certain fields (whether they be disabling, armor peeling, raw damage output, or what have you) the meta will take on a new shape.
For instance, the Gatling Gun could remain an intermediate, medium-range hybrid weapon capable of disabling and defeating armor, while a new piercing weapon could be solely dedicated to destroying armor. There could be one for close and long range. There could be another medium range disabling weapon, while the Flamethrower could receive a buff to place it back in the "close-range disabler" niche (instead of the "joke weapon" niche it occupies presently).
The addition of these weapons would allow the Gatling Gun to be modified for a specific purpose. It's currently the only close range armor piercing option, and it also deals shatter damage. A weapon that dealt a lot more piercing damage without the shatter damage would be good for pure killing setups, but you'd lose out on disabling potential. So there'd be choice.
Meanwhile, buffing the Carousel (and perhaps even the Mortar, slightly) should present more options instead of the Light Flak. I mention the Mortar because, as it does deal slightly more DPS, it's far less reliable and has a poorer effective range, not to mention an inferior rotation speed. I don't think its slight DPS advantage is quite worth it; a little more, probably just 10 damage a shot would be enough to nudge it into competitiveness. The Carousel could use a damage buff as well; however, buffing fire first would be advisable. It stands to reason that the Carousel is similar to the Gatling, in that it has kill potential (explosive damage) and disable potential (incendiary change). Unfortunately, there isn't a Mortar or Light Flak for Piercing damage yet. But, this may change in the near future.
Finally, the fact Gat/flak is so popular is a possible indication that disabling in general is not effective enough. While this is a dangerous pitfall, as disabling is not only loathed by developers and casual players alike for its anti-fun nature, it's also easy to become an optimal solution. An enemy that cannot fight back is far easier to kill, even when lacking raw damage output. As I recall, repair and rebuild times were rebalanced recently; this might be worth looking at.
-
The ability for a pilot's skill to carry a ship was more prevalent in 1.1. Back then I was rolling Helium, Chute vent, moonshine, and making a mockery of hwacha fire with last second dodges and lurking above/below Galleon's field of fires. Now I have to use tar barrel to get away like everyone else. The ratio of skill in to effectiveness out has been reduced a bit. As awkm says he doesn't play balance for high level players. Back when flamethrowers were a 1 stack disable the pilot skill to effectiveness ratio was even steeper.
It is easy to say the game is getting dumbed down for the new players, but to me it is just changing so that my old dirty tricks are not as effective and I have to find new ones. The latest involves backing up to an enemy ship and taring the crap out of it while laughing hysterically.
-
Love me some reverse, stop, tar barrel followed by evil laughing maneuver.
Miss dodging around in my nimble pyra,
Believe it or not I used to call it dancing, and it fet like it when done correctly. Probably wasn't balanced but boy was it fun, and it definitely increased the skill gap.
-
The pyramidion has a few reasons why it's so widely used I'll explain em here, even though most have been previously mentioned.
-Easiest to fly out of the gate. It's a point the front to shoot type ship you don't need to know weapon arcs and most new pilots don't take the time to learn.
-Best multiroll ship. Changing from sniper to brawler is as easy as turning different weapon sets on an enemy.
-It rams hard. Lets be honest ramming people into oblivion is fun and for some reason everyone to ever get this game knows the pyri rams hard.
-Good top speed. <-- yeah that.
It has alot of negatives when compared to other ships but things like maneuvering, acceleration, and large hitboxes don't enter into a new pilots mind.
It really is the easiest ship to just pick up and fly. Mastering it is of course just as hard as any other ship and crewing on one at least IMO is tougher than some.
As I see the Pyri it is probably going to stay a favorite ship of new players, because of everything I mentioned above. Alot of those players won't leave it because it works. That's fine. However alot of players will drift to ships like the Junker and Goldfish, hell maybe even the Galleon. Because those ships do certain things much better than the Pyri can.
The squid as it is now just isn't really worth mentioning, I started on a Squid pre 1.2 and loved it, but it has lost its edge with the patch. You won't see many people trying to win using them. The spire well the Spire is just a troll ship IMO.
-
...
-It rams hard. Lets be honest ramming people into oblivion is fun and for some reason everyone to ever get this game knows the pyri rams hard.
...
I really love that the Pyr's design communicates some of its function so well. First time you see that big pointy bit on the front, you immediately assume that it's for ramming, even without being told that it's an extension of the hull armor.
-
First time you see that big pointy bit on the front, you immediately assume that it's for ramming, even without being told that it's an extension of the hull armor.
That aspect of the ship- the hull armor up at the balloon's level- is my favorite part. Most newer players aim for balloons. By having some hull armor up top, a new team can still be effective and have a chance at destroying a ship. And, cos the Pyra is so popular, many newer players will face against it many times in the skies. The only problem is that those players may not recognize that they are hitting the armor, so they may try to translate their 'shoot the balloon to win' strategy to other ships.
-
That aspect of the ship- the hull armor up at the balloon's level- is my favorite part. Most newer players aim for balloons. By having some hull armor up top, a new team can still be effective and have a chance at destroying a ship. And, cos the Pyra is so popular, many newer players will face against it many times in the skies. The only problem is that those players may not recognize that they are hitting the armor, so they may try to translate their 'shoot the balloon to win' strategy to other ships.
Also makes it the easiest to kill with a carronade. For the most part, I always go for a Pyramid's components because they are all so close to the hull that even if you miss...you're going to hit hull. When on a merc, trying to snipe out the guns mean taking out hull...
let alone if you carronade their balloon, you take out their hull and balloon easily...hell, I've taken out pyramid's hull before their balloons.
Also tend to aim for them with a lumberjack...same results...though mostly targeting them because they're a threat (that and you can pretty much heavily weaken them for a quick mop-up with your other guns.) The fact that their hull is right around their balloon is also nice for heavy flak.
That is the downside with the pyramid being rather popular though, so many people aim for balloons because of that hull.
-
The pyramidion is like that hot chick everybody wants she's packing in all the right place and easy to handle but then you find out she's a slut.
-
Point and shoot ship, easy to pick up and fly with, sturdy and tanky and can support the kill combo of a Gatling and a Flak in front, making it very potent even for a newbie.
When I first started playing, just like most people, I had no idea what the different weapons were good for, so when I joined up on a Pyramidion with an other captain, I just looked around his ship, noted the Gatling and the Flak, pretty much tested out what they were doing myself and understood the basic concept.
Next day I tell a friend of mine to equip these on his ship, he's not the best captain, being as new as I was, yet we still managed to rack up kills like nothing. It's just the ship is the easiest to get used to and probably the most forgiving for extremely agressive players.
Still, that doesn't make it much better than any other ship, it's just easy to learn, but probably as hard to master as other ships. It will keep being popular for new players as long as Gat/Flak is the meta.
Personaly I avoid it like the plauge, I find it the least interesting ship out of them all.
Also who mentioned the term 'Metamidion'? Made me laugh so hard x3
-
The pyramidion is like that hot chick everybody wants she's packing in all the right place and easy to handle but then you find out she's a slut.
HA
On a side note, yesterday night in a regional chat, someone said the "Pyramidion is the strongest ship." ...one double-flak + merc Galleon and a Gat-Gat-Flak Junker against two Pyramidions proved that wrong......they're probably the easiest ship to heavy flak against since if you miss their main hull...you're still going to hit their hull.
...on another side note...would try to fly a pyramid again using a merc + mortar combo........
-
A piercing heavy gun would go a long way for this... just saying.
If suddenly another ship had easy access to armor and integrity destruction it would be a huge difference. As is, light slots are in many places preferable to medium due to light having the guns that really tear apart the armor (and usually share an arc with another slot that can pop in the explosive damage to make it count).
Galleon technically has it on the left side but separate decks for the pierce and heavy explosive damage make it awkward to co-ordinate, all options sacrifice a needed member of the team (currently, downgrading one of the mediums for a gat looks like it would be a massive boost...).
Spire has the light+medium on same facing but is again hard to get them co-ordinated... combined with it's low health make it a priority target and get it destroyed before it has much chance.
A pierce damage heavy gun (why not simply a heavy chain gun?) would open up killer goldfish to counter pyrmi but that could just open up another can of worms...
-
A pierce damage heavy gun (why not simply a heavy chain gun?) would open up killer goldfish to counter pyrmi but that could just open up another can of worms...
Like Heavy Gat/Glak galleons and Heavy Gat Flak Spires? xD
-
Like Heavy Gat/Glak galleons and Heavy Gat Flak Spires? xD
Hey, at least those 2 ships pay for it in terms of sluggishness and being made of paper, respectively. The pyrmi is pretty fast and decent hp. (Also the galleon can't do it whilst aggressively persuing like the pyrmi can).
Didn't say it wouldn't bring other ships to the same flawed meta, but atleast you would see more than Junkers and Pyramids.
-
I used to love the Pyra... I still do, but for both ramming and looks only. Fighting one isn't fun, fighting two is boring, whether you're winning or not. Now, when somebody uses something other than Gat/Flak, they're pretty fun to fight.
I just wish they'd lower it's maneuverability. It's super easy to turn and keep the guns focused on a Squid with Phoenix claw. It's even easy to chase a Squid with Kerosene. Taking out a Pyra's engines is also incredibly difficult since the engineer can smack all three of them, take a few steps and quickly repair the hull.
It has WAY more advantages than disadvantages. Sure you can beat a Pyra, even make it look easy, but no other ship has that kind of survivability, adaptation, and ease of use.
-
If I know I am taking an inexperienced crew, especially main engi, I'm probably taking a pyri just because it is so easy to assign tasks, and super easy for a noob engi to keep up with.
I think that ease of use is the biggest reason for even experienced captains taking the pyri so often -- they know it is the easiest for unfamiliar crew to handle.
-
I just wish they'd lower it's maneuverability. It's super easy to turn and keep the guns focused on a Squid with Phoenix claw. It's even easy to chase a Squid with Kerosene. Taking out a Pyra's engines is also incredibly difficult since the engineer can smack all three of them, take a few steps and quickly repair the hull.
The Pyramidion turns pretty slowly, the problem here is the gatling's wide turning arc, that's why it seems like they are out turning you, when they realy aren't, their guns are.
-
A pierce damage heavy gun (why not simply a heavy chain gun?) would open up killer goldfish to counter pyrmi but that could just open up another can of worms...
Like Heavy Gat/Glak galleons and Heavy Gat Flak Spires? xD
Already exists, it's called a Lumberjack / Flak Galleon with a Mercury light.
Granted, such a combo isn't as easy as point and shoot like all the guns on the Pyramidion are.
-
Already exists, it's called a Lumberjack / Flak Galleon with a Mercury light.
Granted, such a combo isn't as easy as point and shoot like all the guns on the Pyramidion are.
Yeah but, the Mercury is a slow weapon that is ineffective close range. A Heavy gatling would both out-DPS it and would probably cause even more havoc on enemy guns and even severe perma-hull damage aside from chewing through armor like its nothing.
-
Already exists, it's called a Lumberjack / Flak Galleon with a Mercury light.
Granted, such a combo isn't as easy as point and shoot like all the guns on the Pyramidion are.
Yeah but, the Mercury is a slow weapon that is ineffective close range. A Heavy gatling would both out-DPS it and would probably cause even more havoc on enemy guns and even severe perma-hull damage aside from chewing through armor like its nothing.
Hmm... A close range piercing gun that can out-DPS the merc...
I've got it! Let's call it the "Whirlwind Light Gatling Gun"
:P
But in all seriousness, unless the current piercing weapons are significantly nerfed, a heavy version would be preposterously OP when combined with a heavy flak on a Galleon broadside. Think about how powerful the gatling is now. Do you really want to see something that can strip armour better than that (and that's without even getting around to the major hull damage)?
-
Hmm... A close range piercing gun that can out-DPS the merc...
I've got it! Let's call it the "Whirlwind Light Gatling Gun"
:P
But in all seriousness, unless the current piercing weapons are significantly nerfed, a heavy version would be preposterously OP when combined with a heavy flak on a Galleon broadside. Think about how powerful the gatling is now. Do you really want to see something that can strip armour better than that (and that's without even getting around to the major hull damage)?
Well, my very first post about Gat/Flak Spires and Galleons was kinda ironic and sarcastic, of course it's a horrible idea and I definately don't want to see an even more destructive version of the gatling and especialy a heavy one that a Galleon can take advantage if.
-
I've got a few words that involve countering a pyra.
Goldfish.
Manticore.
Burst rounds.
Chute Vent.
Phoenix Claw.
Port-side carronade.
Manticore.
In that order.
If that wasn't detailed enough for some of you, I'll expand a bit.
See a Gat/flack Pyra? Grab your trusty Disabler Goldfish and her forward Manticore. Throw a port-side carronade on her.
Tell your gunner to equip burst rounds. Go ahead and rush the Pyra. Make sure both your engies are on the hull, because it WILL go down.
When your gunner is in effective range, he'll shoot the burst Manticore, and disable the front guns. The enemy pilot will see his weapons down, but will likely still go in for the ram. When the Manticore is almost done wrecking everything, Chute Vent.
Ideally, the pyra will sail right over you. (I would not suggest Hydrogen to dodge the ram, because the enemy pilot may be able to match it. Chute Vents are rarer, because, to most pilots, down = bad.)
Slap on your Phoenix Claw and have one of your engies hop on that port side carronade. Do as much damage to the balloon/armor on the balloon as they can while you turn without the claw to spin your Manticore back around.
By this point, the Manticore should be done or almost done reloading, so cause havoc on their engines/port-side guns (depending on if they have the claw).
Congratulations! You now have a completely disabled Pyramidion! Your brawler ally can now finish him (if you haven't already) or you can take care of your own dirty work (if you aren't running a completely disabler Goldie).
The only trick is making sure that Gat doesn't take out your Manticore on the approach. I try to take as much damage with the balloon as I can. You're going to drop eventually anyway.
This strategy can be countered pretty easily by those who have mastered the Pyra, but if that pilot has got a 1-3 next to the wheel icon in the lobby, you can trust kills outta this one.
-
Awesome, Kirk. I'm gonna try that.
-
Yeah, it's very easy to take advantage of the pyramidion's slow turning if you know what you're doing. If a pyramidion has its guns pointed straight at you, you probably shouldn't stay where you are.
-
Goldfish.
Manticore.
Burst rounds.
Chute Vent.
Phoenix Claw.
Port-side carronade.
Manticore.
In that order.
If that wasn't detailed enough for some of you, I'll expand a bit.
See a Gat/flack Pyra? Grab your trusty Disabler Goldfish and her forward Manticore. Throw a port-side carronade on her.
Tell your gunner to equip burst rounds. Go ahead and rush the Pyra. Make sure both your engies are on the hull, because it WILL go down.
When your gunner is in effective range, he'll shoot the burst Manticore, and disable the front guns. The enemy pilot will see his weapons down, but will likely still go in for the ram. When the Manticore is almost done wrecking everything, Chute Vent.
Ideally, the pyra will sail right over you. (I would not suggest Hydrogen to dodge the ram, because the enemy pilot may be able to match it. Chute Vents are rarer, because, to most pilots, down = bad.)
Slap on your Phoenix Claw and have one of your engies hop on that port side carronade. Do as much damage to the balloon/armor on the balloon as they can while you turn without the claw to spin your Manticore back around.
By this point, the Manticore should be done or almost done reloading, so cause havoc on their engines/port-side guns (depending on if they have the claw).
Congratulations! You now have a completely disabled Pyramidion! Your brawler ally can now finish him (if you haven't already) or you can take care of your own dirty work (if you aren't running a completely disabler Goldie).
The only trick is making sure that Gat doesn't take out your Manticore on the approach. I try to take as much damage with the balloon as I can. You're going to drop eventually anyway.
This strategy can be countered pretty easily by those who have mastered the Pyra, but if that pilot has got a 1-3 next to the wheel icon in the lobby, you can trust kills outta this one.
First of all a Manticore equiped Goldie is not a Pyra counter, it's just a disabler ship with the same effect any ship is hits.
Also, ideally, you want to be above a Pyra since its long nose prevents their guns from shooting at you, go below and prepare to get wrecked cause of the massive arc of both the flak and gatling. Trying to circle then with a Goldie when you don't have ally support won't prove to be effective since with their piloting tools they will be able to keep their guns on you.
If you can kill a Pyra using a Manticore fish and that alone, your enemies are probably horrible, hence the whole arguement about countering the Pyra is kinda null, since a counter should be a counter even on higher level play to be valid and also apply on an equally skilled enviroment.
Of course, Chute vent helps with avoiding their rams, but any decent Pyra pilot will probably just use Kerozene to break rapidly and just watch as you go down while their guns can still hit you, unless you time it extremely well.
It's a battleship, basicaly, it brings brute strength on the field, it's not OP by any means, it's slow turning can still be taken advantage of as it is very vulnerable to flanking and focusing since it can't accellerate fast. Still, just like the basic fighter classes in RPGs, the Pyra is simple and easy to play and understand, hence why it's so popular.
-
The counter to a Pyri is a Junker
-
Yes. The Junker can out-DPS the Pyramidion without a problem.
-
Yes. The Junker can out-DPS the Pyramidion without a problem.
Don't forget about the Junker's exellent turning rate and how easy it is to get on a Pyra's blind spots with it.
Also Trifectas everywhere.
-
Yes. The Junker can out-DPS the Pyramidion without a problem.
Don't forget about the Junker's exellent turning rate and how easy it is to get on a Pyra's blind spots with it.
Also Trifectas everywhere.
That's part of the reason it can out-DPS it. The other part is how much easier it is to run buffgineers on both gat and flak on the Junker.
-
The difference is that the Pyri is a lot easier to crew, especially for the engis, than the Junker.
-
Yes. The Junker can out-DPS the Pyramidion without a problem.
Don't forget about the Junker's exellent turning rate and how easy it is to get on a Pyra's blind spots with it.
Also Trifectas everywhere.
The other part is how much easier it is to run buffgineers on both gat and flak on the Junker.
I honestly haven't tried going double buff-gineer on the Junker yet, should give it a go, thanks for bringing it up.
-
I wouldn't because you make the % of dieing once that armor dies even higher, and for a junker its like 95%
-
I wouldn't because you make the % of dieing once that armor dies even higher, and for a junker its like 95%
Eh, experimentation doesn't hurt once in a while
-
It's a safe bet that I've tried it before and speak from experience, lol.
Not to say no one should ever do it to see for themselves. But that was my experience with it.
-
I wouldn't because you make the % of dieing once that armor dies even higher, and for a junker its like 95%
where does this increase in dying come from? The only thing that changes is that only one engi up top has fire suppression, which isn't a problem at all.
Hull/front gun: Spanner/Mallet/Extinguisher; top side guns/engines: Spanner/Mallet/Buff; Bot deck: Pipe/chem/buff
No loss on repairs at all.
-
I wouldn't because you make the % of dieing once that armor dies even higher, and for a junker its like 95%
But the Junker still has lots of hull armour, and with two buffgineers it should be buffed coming into the engagement. The Pyramidion crew has to be better than the Junker crew to beat that, especially when you consider the Junker's two buffed guns vs. the Pyra's one buffed gun, and the Junker's easier trifecta (and we have to assume equal skill).
-
You guys are really on me today, heh.
You assume I'm using 3 engineers, which I never do. That's where I'm coming from with that answer.
-
You guys are really on me today, heh.
You assume I'm using 3 engineers, which I never do. That's where I'm coming from with that answer.
Well that makes sense. If you are running 2 engis and a gunner, then 2 buff hammers are going to be a problem, yes.
-
The only time I got 2 buff to work with a gunner is on a pyra. Haven't tried it enough to warrant it's use over a regular repair engie as main.
-
To support your point, couple a nights ago my main engi took buff because he was getting an achievement and it was not happy times at all.
-
The one time it was good, was when buffing would make destroyed engines work, back when rebuilding them took longer than buffing.
Anyway, enough derailing. I'm a terrible role model.
-
First of all a Manticore equiped Goldie is not a Pyra counter, it's just a disabler ship with the same effect any ship is hits.
Also, ideally, you want to be above a Pyra since its long nose prevents their guns from shooting at you, go below and prepare to get wrecked cause of the massive arc of both the flak and gatling. Trying to circle then with a Goldie when you don't have ally support won't prove to be effective since with their piloting tools they will be able to keep their guns on you.
If you can kill a Pyra using a Manticore fish and that alone, your enemies are probably horrible, hence the whole arguement about countering the Pyra is kinda null, since a counter should be a counter even on higher level play to be valid and also apply on an equally skilled enviroment.
Of course, Chute vent helps with avoiding their rams, but any decent Pyra pilot will probably just use Kerozene to break rapidly and just watch as you go down while their guns can still hit you, unless you time it extremely well.
It's a battleship, basicaly, it brings brute strength on the field, it's not OP by any means, it's slow turning can still be taken advantage of as it is very vulnerable to flanking and focusing since it can't accellerate fast. Still, just like the basic fighter classes in RPGs, the Pyra is simple and easy to play and understand, hence why it's so popular.
Right on all accounts, but you're looking at it too generally.
Yes, Disablers gon' disable. This is just a specific disabling strategy to disable a headstrong pilot/captain flying a Pyramidion. Not to say being headstrong is bad, (I consider myself quite an aggressive flyer) it's just common, so it's good to be able to thwart the specific tactics.
Ideally, on a fully operational Pyramidion, yes, you do want to be above it. But if you've got a decent gunner, they took care of those front guns and their turning arks. Then you pull the carronade on them, putting some serous damage on that balloon. This pulls one of the combat engies on the top deck off repairing his gun and on the the balloon. Fortunately, the port-side front gun is the one that will be abandoned to repair the balloon, and because the captain will probably be turning to port to get his port-side guns on you, you don't have to worry about the gun in that position too much.
Good communication thwarts this, but Manticores cause a certain panic on most ships that is replicated by few other weapons.
Because you haven't hit them with any piercing damage, their armor is likely still up, which is why I suggested you let your ally come in and finish the kill. This is actually preferred. By "Finish your own dirty work (if you aren't running a completely disabler Goldie)." I meant that you have a starboard Gatling Gun as opposed to a flamer, carronade, or other disablement/harassment weapon. This gives you a nice piercing/explosive combo because the Whirlwind and the Hwacha actually have a little sweet-spot crossover on the Goldie. Once again, less preferred, but still might be effective.
Despite the sheer amount of words and explaining done in the two posts, this is no where near a Cogs-level battle plan, just a fun way to try to take out a few of those pyras other than Gat/Flak them before they Gat/Flak you.
Safety and peace, my friends!
-
Well, I didn't disagree that you can take them out of the battle for quite a bit by using a Hwacha or any loadout with the Goldie, I know of the notorious Gat/Hwacha Fish build, it's pretty effective for more than taking out Pyras.
I just looked into too much detail, so, what I wanted to say is, you can't just say you 'counter' a specific ship by disabling it with a Manticore, cause well, this will disable any ship. That's all. Other than that, yes, it is a way to beat them I guess, one of the many.
-
One of the many, indeed.
-
The new incendiary round is pretty hilarious to use against a pyramid...
Wether it be Gatling gun for rapid hull, slow spread out fire...
...or a Lumberjack, Heavy Carronade, or Manticore for wide area...your everything is on fire...
...
there's just something funny about shooting one Lumberjack, or one Hellhound....and seeing the entire ship glow in flame...
-
Does the new incendiary round set things on fire with its AOE? I was under the impression it was just at the point of contact.
-
Does the new incendiary round set things on fire with its AOE? I was under the impression it was just at the point of contact.
Let's say this...
One lumberjack set the guns, hull, and balloon on fire...
Though that does not mean if it's for the whole AoE, or the point of contacts from the AoE
-
Okay, I do have one complaint with Pyras. They go way too damn fast for a battleship, the fact that they can keep up with a Squid is kinda disturbing. That's all o 3o
-
I know, right? >.< me and my Squid can't escape 'em without Tar.
-
Okay, I do have one complaint with Pyras. They go way too damn fast for a battleship, the fact that they can keep up with a Squid is kinda disturbing. That's all o 3o
Agreed.
-
No, the Pyri is not too fast, the Squid is too slow.
-
No, the Pyri is not too fast, the Squid is too slow.
one and the same, my problem is that as a Squid I can't outrun a Pyramidion. That shouldn't be the case.
-
No, the Pyri is not too fast, the Squid is too slow.
Agreed. The Squid should be like, 2x as fast as it is. Right now, it's trivial to keep a squid in the gun arc for the tiny amount of damage that kills it.
Maybe take the hull down by 1/3, and boost the tri-dimensional speed properties (up, down, for'ard, astern, turning) by 2. Then it becomes a real challenge to pilot (overturning everywhere! Must plan maneuvers ) but in the right hands, wouldn't be around long enough to be shot.
Might completely destroy game balance, but I'd give it a try!
-
No, the Pyri is not too fast, the Squid is too slow.
one and the same, my problem is that as a Squid I can't outrun a Pyramidion. That shouldn't be the case.
Not to split hairs, but I'm splitting hairs. If the Squid and the Pyramidion were the only two ships then it would be one and the same, but there many other ships out there. I've heard told the Goldfish can actually outrun a Squid (not sure what the specifics are).
In short, the speeds of all the ships, relative to each other is actually quite balance, I think, except that the Squid is too slow.
-
Without Kerosine I had a hard time keeping up with a galleon in a squid. The squid accelerates much faster, but I think their top speeds are pretty close.
I was in a 2v2 with three inexperienced captains. I was playing mid field annoyance with my squid on a dunes match when I see this enemy galleon flying strait at my ally. I make the intercept at 80 degrees, but want to pull even with the galleon so that I can use my front and side guns on it. Since the galleon was already going its top speed It got a bit of a lead on me as I had to turn post intercept. I put my engines to full but did not gain any ground on it. Only after I kerosined the engines was I able to pull even with it. I don't know if the galleon was on kerosine at the time, but galleons can get up to a pretty impressive top speed of they have enough room to accelerate up to it.
What I am trying to say is that survival in the squid is not about strait line speed, but rather maneuverability and placement.
-
No, the Pyri is not too fast, the Squid is too slow.
one and the same, my problem is that as a Squid I can't outrun a Pyramidion. That shouldn't be the case.
Not to split hairs, but I'm splitting hairs. If the Squid and the Pyramidion were the only two ships then it would be one and the same, but there many other ships out there. I've heard told the Goldfish can actually outrun a Squid (not sure what the specifics are).
In short, the speeds of all the ships, relative to each other is actually quite balance, I think, except that the Squid is too slow.
Okay you do have a point and I agree, it's not the same. You were right to split hairs, so no worries about that c: