46
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #11 (Signups for Sunday 20th July)
« on: July 19, 2014, 03:37:52 pm »
Rydr will be there!
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47
The Lounge / Re: The most glorious Quotes ever
« on: July 19, 2014, 07:48:06 am »Quote
Buffing the flamer on Fluffy's hwach fish at the start of the match.
"Oh my god that is sooo cake."
-Deltajugg
Fixed that for you
Actually that's the only thing I wanted to post, but to avoid meaningless spam reply I'll include secret Rydr battleplans in form of Daniel's quote:
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Dementio:Ok so here is the plan
Dementio: I will go 5flare mob and lag them out of
the game
Dementio: and Fred kills
Dementio: I will go for 5-0
48
Community Events / Re: Hephaestus Challenge Tipping Thread
« on: July 18, 2014, 08:46:51 am »
Rydr 5 vs 4 GwTh
Clamour 5 vs 1 DPA
OVW 5 vs 3 Muse
Cake 5 vs 2 BFS
SIR 5 vs 3 MM
HRA 5 vs 1 SAC
MH 5 vs 1 TAW
Upset of the Week:
Muse wins... again!
Clamour 5 vs 1 DPA
OVW 5 vs 3 Muse
Cake 5 vs 2 BFS
SIR 5 vs 3 MM
HRA 5 vs 1 SAC
MH 5 vs 1 TAW
Upset of the Week:
Muse wins... again!
49
Community Events / Re: Room for Improvement
« on: July 14, 2014, 09:53:23 pm »Quote
Is the HC League too long, too short, or just right? Why do you feel this way?
I feel ok with how long HC league is when it comes to it being a few months long tournament. Many matches require alot of training and preparation, which I feel that, during such a long time, can only affect teams positively, giving them more time to progress. When it comes to the amount of matches per day, I'm fine with the length of the tournament, I'm just not ok with the time all matches end, and because of that I'd prefer the matches to start an hour earlier than they do.
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Much of the league uses a best of 1 system. Would a best of 3 system have felt better, or was the best of 1 option a good way to protect your time and the audience's time?
In the current stage of the tournament I'm ok with the best of 1 system, but I sure do hope that when the golden playoffs will start, we'll switch to the best of 3/5 system. At that point one match between two teams may not be enough to truly represent the skillgap between two different teams, so if there's a chance a team may end up in the finals because of one lucky match, I feel it would be weird (f.e if Muse vs Clamour were to happen in the Golden Playoffs).
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The HC League (re?)introduced a separation of casting and administration, but failed (largely due to me) to separate administration and referees. Was the separation good? Would you have liked to see more separation between administration and referees?
I had no issues around that subject, so I personally am fine with how it is now.
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Time limit rules came into play multiple times. Were these rules a good way to end the match, both as a player and as a viewer? Is there a different format that you feel might better protect the ability to bring any style to competition?
Neither as a player or viewer, I don't feel satisfied seeing matches ending with a timeout. I don't feel like 30 minutes of no-kill match is a good thing, neither is waiting for a whole match to the very end, getting few kills for an advantage and winning by a technicality that is a timeout win. I believe that a system similar to SCS games (15 min base +3 min per kill of time) would be more efficient, and we'd avoid prolonged, passive snipe fights as well. I'd also add additional rule like in footbal, where a referee can add bonus time (up to 3(?) minutes)if the match were to end during the engagement.
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Were the set start times a good or bad thing? Did you feel you were left waiting in full lobbies too long waiting for your match to start? Did you enjoy knowing exactly when your match would start? Did it allow you to schedule better and get friends to watch you? Would a rolling start time or a different format work better?
I'm ok with the matches starting right after the previous matches are over (again, similar to SCS rules), but I don't mind the current system as well, even though I think it has some flaws. First of all, we've seen many stomp matches ending after 10 minutes, that gives us 20 additional minutes to already existing 15 minutes of break, a timespan I feel is unnecessary, as it may gather up to 105 minutes of wasted time in total between 4 matches that could simply be filled with immediate start of the next match. I don't think that people not showing up for their matches would be an issue, most of the people are watching other Hephaestus matches before waiting for theirs anyway,and I don't know if that was ever a problem in the SCS, having this system, but it would surely save time for many people. One benefit is that it allows you to show up on a certain (even if unnecessary late) hour, and there's still enough time for teams to schedule a pre-hephaestus warm up.
My biggest issue is the very start of the event being so late for Europeans, causing alot of roster problems during the last matches of the day. I'd either implement non-strict match times, so the Saturday's events would end earlier than they currently end, or I would start the event an hour earlier itself, same as SCS(or both, both is good as well).
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Did the lobby time limit provide an adequate arena for selecting your ship without opening the match to excessive ship swapping? Did you feel safe to take unusual builds, or would a different system make you feel safer in taking unusual builds?
If I feel that a build is unusual, then I probably didn't play enough with it to feel comfortable using it in official competitive tournament, so I don't take it in the first place. Getting the preferrable loadout wasn't really much of an issue, me and my team usually are confident enough with what we take, but even in the cases of having an issue with choosing our layouts I still don't feel like we're overwhelmingly pressured with the time limit. Time limit-wise I don't expect anything to change my layouts into more unusual, though, and I don't see the connection between the time for choosing a build and its quirkiness.
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Were the pause time rules fair, and fairly enforced? Were you ever concerned that server problems or player disconnects would ruin a match for your team?
As much as during first 2 weeks of the Hephaestus I felt like pause rules are very strict and merciless (I really like having a pause, even in combat, if I'm being teleported around the ship, anywhere BUT the hull that needs repairing), I find them fair in most cases, and even if cruel, the reasoning behind it is completely understandable. Also, I am always concerned about server problems and DCs ruining not only my team's match, but also our opponent's, and other teams overall, though I'm not sure I would change the rules in case of the in-combat DC with a soft pause that we currently have in the game, many people probably won't look at the chat during combat anyway, so shooting will happen in places. As it stands, I wouldn't change the rules.
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Were the substitution rules sufficiently flexible to allow you to make all needed substitutions? Did you ever feel the substitution rules were too lax, allowing a player or team to abuse them?
If I'm correct, the substitute player needs to switch his/her layout to the one that the player being replaced had. Thus, I don't even see a way to abuse it, and I consider the substitute rules to be fair. Regarding not being able to use a player that already played for another team that particular day, I feel like there's more than enough willing subs around that teams know, active and ready to help the team, so I don't think there's any reason for one player to sub in multiple matches on one day. I feel comfortable with the rules as they are, I don't feel the need to change anything about them.
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Were there any rules you felt strongly for or against? Something you felt harmed the integrity of the match or League?
Other than having one match happening for us at an hour I was not comfortable with, I have no other issues with the Hephaestus League at all. Neither I can think of anything I was especially positively surprised about, I just absorbed the rules as ones I'm comfortable with, not having any issues. I'm neutral about most of it. Only thing I'd want is to reschedule one of our matches, but I think that we're at fault, asking for it so late.
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Do you feel that the map pool provided sufficient variety, and that the maps each added something beneficial to the map pool? Was there a map that detracted from the quality of the League that you felt should have been removed?
Well, Dunes are definitely quite controversial, the map itself asks for lots of sniping builds, which causes alot of long, often boring matches. That being said, it's not happening often enough for me to think about excluding it, with Dunes being a map that alot of teams know how to get advantage of, same as any other map for other teams. I'd personally love to see Labyrinth being included on slightly different rules to the map pool, working with all DM maps, with the map having yet another chance to show off different strengths of the teams.
50
Community Events / Re: Should Competitive Matches move toward Capture Point?
« on: July 13, 2014, 09:29:05 am »
The issue you have here is lack of pressure on DeathMatch maps to get immediate kills. Usually brawling teams don't have that issue, because they are prepared to take alot of damage while getting the kills, cause that's what the brawling mindset is in the first place. As long as there's at least one side that tries to close distance between two teams, because their strategy includes it, the fire exchange will happen. The problem starts in the situation when you have two teams with their layouts and strategy based on passive sniping. Usually we see sniping builds working and still providing entertainment because, while passive snipe team only defends itself, there's another, much more agressive team that puts pressure and initiates fights, causes the engagements, and their actions decide on whether there will be any kills in this match or not. But the moment when both teams' ships are based on just camping in one point and hoping for good snipe, there's a problem. No team engages, not putting pressure, so both teams just camp, exchange non-lethal amount of inaccurate long-range fire and take cover in case they take more of it, repair, then come back to sniping. Did any ship lose some permahull in this game? I believe armor fell once on one mobula. Should we remove armor or permahull from the game just because it causes the ships to be able to endure enough damage to survive long range exchange? Of course not! But same goes for removing DM maps from the pool and/or getting rid of sniping guns. All teams have certain playstyles and strategies, some of them, like GwTh, can manage to use all kinds of cover on Dunes, making them almost unseen until you're in the range of their close range guns. Rydr have their agressive-sniping approach with Mobulas. There's alot of more examples I'm sure you yourself can come up with, where some team prefers fighting on one map or another, using sniping guns or not, but removing DM maps/sniping guns from the pool during competitive events is not a solution, and neither is making them CP only.
Thing is, to win a CP, you do have one thing that you need in deathmatches - pressure. You're pressured to fight for the point in the middle of the map, and you can't really go passive snipe camping on your spawn and hope for an easy win. But sadly, what CP does is it reduces your ship choices and strategy approach. We probably won't see sniping ships at all anymore, you'd probably prefer some brawling ship to contest the point, especially since there's not enough space around the point on any CP map to effectively keep your distance with it against enemy ships. Furthermore, such things as flanks and making use of the environment, using map cover, getting to know the whole map, those things won't happen. That's a big flaw of CP maps, you're only pinned down to one point at the map, you need to hold it, you need to go for it, you ignore the rest of the big map you're flying on. What's the point of getting to know the names of every single paritan building for your strategical advantages if all you'll care about from now on is The Globe on Lab?
You end up with a problem of having a CP mode, that puts the pressure to act, which you need on DM, but in form of making one point of importance, which cripples the amount of effective ship layouts to ones being useful only close to the point, and by completely ignoring the structure of the rest of the map, which takes away alot of strategical advantages for many teams that worked hard on making them work.
On the other hand you have DM, where you're not pressured to one point on the map, and your ship layouts are dependant solely on your team's playstyle, and possibly with a little bit of dependance on the map type, but, as brawling Dune Thralls already have proven many times, not significantly enough to make your builds not work on certain maps at all. You have no pressure to go straight for one point on the map, giving you freedom of choice for approach and making use of the map's structure. Basically, no pressure at all, which sounds great, until you have no pressure to actually engage the enemy.
That's where the problem is, you either end up with interesting, intense and complex fights, with an occasional situation when no team feels pressured enough and confident with their builds to get any kills, or you get a game that will end at some point, will end quickly, and you'll have significant fire exchange, but for the price of giving away many essential aspects of competitive games, dumbing down the fights to simple "rush in for the point, kill people fast and cap", and you'll reduce the amount of effective layouts to mostly brawling ships. What you need to come up with is a good ruleset (for either tournament or the map) that will put pressure on people to actually kill eachother, or, in CP case, something that will make use of larger part of the map, so hiding between buildings, behind cover etc. would have any point on it, and also something that would allow you to use sniping ships effectively, simply put, we need kill pressure on DM, and playstyle variety on CPs.
As it has been mentioned before, I'd love to see Labyrinth as an additional map to be put in the map pool, under specific rules designed for CP maps to cope with DM ones. I also don't mind seeing some kind of mini tournament, something similar to SCS, that is only oriented around CP. But for a bigger scale, to exclude DeathMatches in every single competitive event that we'll end up with from now on? That I'll never agree on. A misread strategy for two teams during one competitive DeathMatch is not enough of a reason for me to give up all the fun that DM fights provide, just carpe diem next time and our problem is solved there. I thought that neither team would like the idea of ending up with no kills and no win at the end of the day, especially since, as you put it yourself, neither casters, nor audience, nor players themselves enjoyed ending up in such situation.
Thing is, to win a CP, you do have one thing that you need in deathmatches - pressure. You're pressured to fight for the point in the middle of the map, and you can't really go passive snipe camping on your spawn and hope for an easy win. But sadly, what CP does is it reduces your ship choices and strategy approach. We probably won't see sniping ships at all anymore, you'd probably prefer some brawling ship to contest the point, especially since there's not enough space around the point on any CP map to effectively keep your distance with it against enemy ships. Furthermore, such things as flanks and making use of the environment, using map cover, getting to know the whole map, those things won't happen. That's a big flaw of CP maps, you're only pinned down to one point at the map, you need to hold it, you need to go for it, you ignore the rest of the big map you're flying on. What's the point of getting to know the names of every single paritan building for your strategical advantages if all you'll care about from now on is The Globe on Lab?
You end up with a problem of having a CP mode, that puts the pressure to act, which you need on DM, but in form of making one point of importance, which cripples the amount of effective ship layouts to ones being useful only close to the point, and by completely ignoring the structure of the rest of the map, which takes away alot of strategical advantages for many teams that worked hard on making them work.
On the other hand you have DM, where you're not pressured to one point on the map, and your ship layouts are dependant solely on your team's playstyle, and possibly with a little bit of dependance on the map type, but, as brawling Dune Thralls already have proven many times, not significantly enough to make your builds not work on certain maps at all. You have no pressure to go straight for one point on the map, giving you freedom of choice for approach and making use of the map's structure. Basically, no pressure at all, which sounds great, until you have no pressure to actually engage the enemy.
That's where the problem is, you either end up with interesting, intense and complex fights, with an occasional situation when no team feels pressured enough and confident with their builds to get any kills, or you get a game that will end at some point, will end quickly, and you'll have significant fire exchange, but for the price of giving away many essential aspects of competitive games, dumbing down the fights to simple "rush in for the point, kill people fast and cap", and you'll reduce the amount of effective layouts to mostly brawling ships. What you need to come up with is a good ruleset (for either tournament or the map) that will put pressure on people to actually kill eachother, or, in CP case, something that will make use of larger part of the map, so hiding between buildings, behind cover etc. would have any point on it, and also something that would allow you to use sniping ships effectively, simply put, we need kill pressure on DM, and playstyle variety on CPs.
As it has been mentioned before, I'd love to see Labyrinth as an additional map to be put in the map pool, under specific rules designed for CP maps to cope with DM ones. I also don't mind seeing some kind of mini tournament, something similar to SCS, that is only oriented around CP. But for a bigger scale, to exclude DeathMatches in every single competitive event that we'll end up with from now on? That I'll never agree on. A misread strategy for two teams during one competitive DeathMatch is not enough of a reason for me to give up all the fun that DM fights provide, just carpe diem next time and our problem is solved there. I thought that neither team would like the idea of ending up with no kills and no win at the end of the day, especially since, as you put it yourself, neither casters, nor audience, nor players themselves enjoyed ending up in such situation.
51
Community Events / Re: Hephaestus Challenge Tipping Thread
« on: July 11, 2014, 08:23:48 am »
GwTh 5 vs 2 OVW
MH 5 vs 2 DPA
Rydr 5 vs 0 Muse
SAC 5 vs 2 BFS
MM 5 vs 1 TAW
HRA 5 vs 3 Cake
SIR 5 vs 4 Clam
MH 5 vs 2 DPA
Rydr 5 vs 0 Muse
SAC 5 vs 2 BFS
MM 5 vs 1 TAW
HRA 5 vs 3 Cake
SIR 5 vs 4 Clam
52
The Lounge / Re: The most glorious Quotes ever
« on: July 08, 2014, 07:20:43 am »
"...tried and true..." - Morty
it's already a drinking game
it's already a drinking game
53
Community Events / Re: Hephaestus Challenge Tipping Thread
« on: July 03, 2014, 02:54:48 pm »
Rydr 5 vs 2 Clam
GwTh 5 vs 0 DPA
MH 3 vs 5 OVW
SIR 2 vs 5 HRA
MM 3 vs 5 SAC
TAW 3 vs 5 BFS
Muse 2 vs 5 Cake
GwTh 5 vs 0 DPA
MH 3 vs 5 OVW
SIR 2 vs 5 HRA
MM 3 vs 5 SAC
TAW 3 vs 5 BFS
Muse 2 vs 5 Cake
54
Community Events / Re: Hephaestus Challenge Tipping Thread
« on: June 26, 2014, 08:51:59 am »
OVW 5 vs 4 Clamour
Rydr 5 vs 2 MH
SIR 5 vs 1 BFS
GwTh 5 vs 3 SAC
Rydr 5 vs 2 MH
SIR 5 vs 1 BFS
GwTh 5 vs 3 SAC
55
Community Events / Re: Hephaestus Challenge Tipping Thread
« on: June 19, 2014, 08:31:23 am »
Museosaurs 3 vs 5 DeadPool's Army
Holy Roman Army 5 vs 1 The Art of Warfare
Zill's Merry Men 2 vs 5 Cake
-Muse is a team that's really hard to predict the score with right now, especially against DPA, that did not have really impressive matches either. The problem with Muse is that many members of their roster is a mix from any other clans, which can be highly advantageous for them, but another drawback is their tendency to take controversial builds, which most of the time backfire rather than work as intended. DPA on the other hand had a really tough time, first facing Rydr, that had the experience advantage over them, later on fighting against Merry Men, where I believe their trust in double metamidion is what lost them their match. That being said, they managed a really impressive victory once they brought a double banshee build, which highly abused the flaws in OVW playstyle. With all that being said, this match is really hard to properly predict for me, with both teams having little experience, but with Muse possibly having more veteran players in their team to their advantage, but not necessarily having the best ship choices, and DPA, that's finally started to think about their strategy. I put my horses on DPA with this match, but it's only because they're stable with their ability to pull off a victory, whereas the everchanging Muse squad and controversial picks may or may not be Muse's key to victory.
-There's no doubt about this match, HRA being currently at the very top of the bracket in both Divisions, versus TAW, that are yet to get the first kill. I'm sorry to say that, but HRA outskills you guys. I do hope you'll get at least that one kill somehow.
-As much as one would think this is an even matchup, I think that Cake will take this without much problem. Merry Men had alot of trouble dealing with BFS, which I don't think of a really powerful team right now, and Cake is giving people quite a fight in every single of their matches. And I believe that their aggressive playstyle we've seen against TAW will bring them victory against Merry Men as well.
If by any chance I'm wrong about that, and Merry Men will take a convincing win against Cake, I'll be happy too, for where I previously have seen BFS and MM as kind of rusty, and currently weak teams, a win against Cake will be deciding factor for me that MM is coming back, ever so powerful.
Good Luck to everyone, and have fun.
Holy Roman Army 5 vs 1 The Art of Warfare
Zill's Merry Men 2 vs 5 Cake
-Muse is a team that's really hard to predict the score with right now, especially against DPA, that did not have really impressive matches either. The problem with Muse is that many members of their roster is a mix from any other clans, which can be highly advantageous for them, but another drawback is their tendency to take controversial builds, which most of the time backfire rather than work as intended. DPA on the other hand had a really tough time, first facing Rydr, that had the experience advantage over them, later on fighting against Merry Men, where I believe their trust in double metamidion is what lost them their match. That being said, they managed a really impressive victory once they brought a double banshee build, which highly abused the flaws in OVW playstyle. With all that being said, this match is really hard to properly predict for me, with both teams having little experience, but with Muse possibly having more veteran players in their team to their advantage, but not necessarily having the best ship choices, and DPA, that's finally started to think about their strategy. I put my horses on DPA with this match, but it's only because they're stable with their ability to pull off a victory, whereas the everchanging Muse squad and controversial picks may or may not be Muse's key to victory.
-There's no doubt about this match, HRA being currently at the very top of the bracket in both Divisions, versus TAW, that are yet to get the first kill. I'm sorry to say that, but HRA outskills you guys. I do hope you'll get at least that one kill somehow.
-As much as one would think this is an even matchup, I think that Cake will take this without much problem. Merry Men had alot of trouble dealing with BFS, which I don't think of a really powerful team right now, and Cake is giving people quite a fight in every single of their matches. And I believe that their aggressive playstyle we've seen against TAW will bring them victory against Merry Men as well.
If by any chance I'm wrong about that, and Merry Men will take a convincing win against Cake, I'll be happy too, for where I previously have seen BFS and MM as kind of rusty, and currently weak teams, a win against Cake will be deciding factor for me that MM is coming back, ever so powerful.
Good Luck to everyone, and have fun.
56
The Pit / Re: Ban the User Above You
« on: June 13, 2014, 04:11:32 pm »I ban Delta for not understanding simple C++, Also I'm calling out Hamster for not including a reason for his ban and only the fact that he is banning me.. infinitely.. (I hope I haven't made a mistake there)
I ban Hunter for thinking I didn't understand. What HamsterIV did is basically "I ban Hunter because I can!", so I did "I ban Hamster because I can't" (if that makes any sense).
Also, a special Ban for whoever came up with Scythe CPU Fan Model Kaze Jyu Slim 100mm x.x (wish me luck to show up on Hephaestus lol).
57
The Pit / Re: Ban the User Above You
« on: June 13, 2014, 11:59:36 am »
I ban HamsterIV because I can't (?o.O?)
58
The Pit / Re: Ban the User Above You
« on: June 13, 2014, 02:38:11 am »
I ban Hunter for not being too good at spotting the people that are too good at spotting the people that are too good at spotting the people that are too good at not telling the truth, and instead spotting the people that are too good at spotting the people that are too good at not telling the truth yet again, claming they are too good at spotting the people that are too good at spotting the people that are too good at not telling the truth, and banning them for it.
59
Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #6 (Signups for Sunday 15th June)
« on: June 13, 2014, 02:26:27 am »Storm Thralls?Glowwater Ryders ;p
60
The Pit / Re: Ban the User Above You
« on: June 12, 2014, 06:11:47 am »
I ban Cheesy Crackers for being a bad liar.