GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2

[awkm]

I'm on holiday so here are my quick responses:

Artemis AoE, Projectile Speed, and Zoom Changes:
- Previously overshadowed the Field Gun
- It was obviously OP

I'm glad people notice this gun now and are talking about it regardless if they think its nerfed or not.  I've been trying to get it back into play since it was homing lol.



Artemis and Carronade Angle Changes:
- Ship movement to telegraph tactics aka Streetfighter.  This is an experiment of mine and since no one really touched on it yet, I'm telling you now.  Let me know what you think.
- I don't want to change Hydrogen.  Unlike Streetfighter, this game is not about dodging.  Positioning is king.  You need to work to get constant balloon lock.  And yes, it is not fun being constantly locked.

Lumberjack:
- Absolutely nothing has changed.  Sure, it could be ship movement or something with angular velocity but that's all I got for you.  So far, there are no bugs related to those systems and those systems have improved gameplay a great deal.  Rolling back changes is unlikely (like the Artemis lol).
- If you find a bug with any of this, please let us know through feedback@musegames.com

[Captain Smollett]

Ok, awkm, that is hilarious.

I may not always agree with your ideas but at least you do them with style lol.

Enjoy your holiday, it's well deserved.

[HamsterIV]

- I don't want to change Hydrogen.  Unlike Streetfighter, this game is not about dodging.  Positioning is king.  You need to work to get constant balloon lock.  And yes, it is not fun being constantly locked.

But I like dodging, popping helium to get over a manticore volley at medium range was what I lived for pre 1.2 patch. It was like playing chicken with bullets. Move too soon and the gunner adjusts. Move too late and you still get hit. Move at just the right time and you get away Scott free.

Speaking of the Manticore did the upward/downward limits change recently. I remember being able to sit outside of the vertical Manticore fire limits and still having shot with the light guns of my Pyramidion. It may be that I am less vertically mobile than pre 1.2, but I am far more vulnerable to Manticore galleons than I used to be.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

I'm on holiday so here are my quick responses:

Artemis AoE, Projectile Speed, and Zoom Changes:
- Previously overshadowed the Field Gun
- It was obviously OP

I'm glad people notice this gun now and are talking about it regardless if they think its nerfed or not.  I've been trying to get it back into play since it was homing lol.

Nah it's just Scrimscraw broke the game by combining Merc and Artemis togethen in the front of Pyras in 1.1.5 (followed by me) to easily take defeat double spire tactics, the like of witch the Polaris is fond of

-- yes I have my own set of things I won't ever shut about, and that is one of them

[Sammy B. T.]

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting a return to the last artemis. Just why not the artemis before, the one that was very much usable but hardly over powered. The gun was fine, then it became too fine, why not just go back to how it was. That is what I simply do not understand.

[Machiavelliest]

I do agree with Sammy on the balance issue. It might be better to return and then redo changes than to just continue to stack modification on modification.  A cardinal rule of flying is that if suddenly there's smoke in the aircraft, undo what you just did.

[Captain Magellan]

People tell me how they hate the new Carronade but I think it was a wise choice. If a blenderfish knew what he was doing, there was no escaping him. Your only hope was your buddy came for you, but then it takes very little to break a balloon so you could switch in between the two and you could actually kill both of them alone with no hassle. That's why the carronade/flak pyra was so strong because you could take on multiple opponents and win much easier. You may have destroyed the untouchable strategy of hanging above your opponent and driving him into the ice, but you just created the new strategy of hanging below them (granted, it's difficult to hit the balloon). But like you said, this game isn't about realism. If it was, the carronade would be on the bottom of your ship pointing straight down.

[AquaMac]

I do not understand why some people keep saying that the Lumber Jack has not changed? Are you talking about after the big patch or before? Maybe the Lumber Jack itself has not changed, but something has like the velocity of the ammo. I am not a big lumber Jack expert like some people are, and even I noticed a change right away. The arc is completely different, and you need to shoot straighter now to hit someone.

Most of you have seen the stream of Phoebe on the Lumber Jack taking out a ship even if there was sliver of them showing. Why would you think she does not know what the heck she is talking about? It is pretty insulting for those that claim nothing has changed. She is not a Newbie on the Lumber Jack. I am, and I even noticed a change right away. I mean why not just take it for what it is, and trust her, and go from there? I just do not get it?

[RearAdmiralZill]

Aqua, while you are free to post about your thoughts on lumberjack in this thread, I ask that you take your disagreements with Bubbles to PM or through email. This is purely to maintain the topic of Gun balance. Thanks.

[Captain Smollett]

Zill, very diplomatically stated.  I was going to say it very differently, glad you posted first.

[AquaMac]

I edited my post, and I apologize. Captain Smollet, not sure that last of your remark was needed though.

[Squash]

Does anyone else think it's changed?

[HamsterIV]

I think the changes to ship maneuverability has caused some guns including the lumberjack to be more viable than they once were. I can no longer use a Pyramidion to dance around a galleon like I once did.

[awkm]

Once again, I have not changed anything with the lumberjack for a while now. If there is a change it most likely comes from New ship movement models as well as angular velocity inheritance for guns.

I'm on holiday so I can't check right now. It is also possible that a bug occurred during database copying from test to production servers.

In the meantime, it has been filed as a bug (which should always be done with any behavior anomalies) and will be investigated in the near future.

Take step back, deep breath, relax.



Artemis values now are very similar to what they were other than the turning arcs. I'm not thaaaaaat stupid

Well, you'll never know will you?

[awkm]

This has been triple checked for the last time.  The Lumberjack has had no changes for several patches now.

Please redirect all speculated Lumberjack changes to another thread or better yet, COME UP WITH A REPRODUCTION CASE AND FILE IT IN A BUG REPORT. This is the best way to help us squash bugs. Telling us that there is a bug is only part of the equation. We need a way to reproduce it reliably to investigate where the bug is occurring. This means detailed descriptions of what the changes you're perceiving are.

Any Lumberjack discussion that does not have to do with balance will be deleted or moved to the appropriate topic if one has been created.  There's already a thread regarding Lumberjack projectile ranges with graphs and all that.  I suggest reaching out to the creator of those graphs to run tests again because from our side, the Lumberjack is behaving as expected given its values.