Author Topic: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2  (Read 66404 times)

Offline awkm

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GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« on: April 30, 2013, 02:23:48 pm »
Everything about guns in v1.2

No major revisions occurred in this round aside from improved particle trails/effects.  Some slight adjustments to turn radius and spread on some guns to account for these visual tweaks.

Upcoming is experimentation for Field Gun shots penetrating through objects.  Again, this is just testing for now although I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on it anyway.  For each NEW component the bullet hits, it will apply both primary and secondary damage.  Again, only NEW components.  A component cannot be hit twice with the same bullet.

Mine launcher has been delayed.  Hopefully out within the next few weeks.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 02:34:53 pm by awkm »

Offline Squash

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 05:18:52 pm »
I miss the old harpoon. It used to be that you'd hit someone with it, and it would fling both them and you in unpredictable directions, it was the only ship-moving weapon in the game. Now it really doesn't do that, now it's more like a tow rope.

Working more realistically? For sure.
Working as intended? I dunno, is it?
Still competitive? Not on a galleon anymore, squids might get some new use out of it.

I just miss the old harpoon.

Offline awkm

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 05:49:41 pm »
I miss the old harpoon. It used to be that you'd hit someone with it, and it would fling both them and you in unpredictable directions, it was the only ship-moving weapon in the game. Now it really doesn't do that, now it's more like a tow rope.

Working more realistically? For sure.
Working as intended? I dunno, is it?
Still competitive? Not on a galleon anymore, squids might get some new use out of it.

I just miss the old harpoon.

The harpoon logic is really weird.  As I said before, it's very very realistic.  Realistic to the point that no one really understands what's going on, there are just too many forces at play here that it's impossible for our human brains to commute.  Jay, the programmer who implemented this assures me that this is what the real-life physics equations would dictate.

I decreased the force the harpoon applies a patch or two ago and it got better, it didn't fling you all too much but the results were more predictable.  However, ships back then all had the same mass.  So now that mass is actually respected, the harpoon doesn't feel the same way as before.  In fact, it's acting has it should be but no one knew what it would feel like shooting a ship of different mass.

The harpoon is a long-term project.  I want to get to the point where you have tug boats.  Yes, Squid tug boats.  That means engine thrust is a huge part of the equation.

Offline RethBurn

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2013, 06:06:31 pm »
So I took a Full-artemis Junker for a spin, and I found it was like a constant Hwacha Barrage, the artemis seems strong now, abit too strong however. I can see people going with this full-on Mini-hwacha.

It would be fair if the reload was abit longer, but right now I can pretty much lock down anything within seconds, and decimate them.

Offline Squash

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2013, 06:28:20 pm »
Well one more thing. We really need more piercing weapons. If you don't include the harpoon for practicality purposes, there's only two piercing guns, which means pretty much every ship will bring one or the other, that's not a lot of diversity.

Offline RethBurn

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 06:58:47 am »
I tend to agree, the Javelin needs something to make it more viable, easier firing (now that it's not a revolving tethering of doomation) as in more speed to the projectile, could we one. If it became that Hull-shattering blow, followed by ex. a Mortar up close, it could make some interesting builds.

Offline Queso

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 07:28:20 am »
I personally think all the piercing weapons right now are too easy. The gatling has such little spread and such a high fire rate that they can't even get close to fixing through one. The field gun is probably the easiest projectile in the game to hit with. I would love to see a little variety.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 11:02:27 pm »
Balance concerns and questions for guns?

One word: Artemis

Offline awkm

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 11:23:33 pm »
Balance concerns and questions for guns?

One word: Artemis


Yup, I know.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 11:25:14 pm »
Balance concerns and questions for guns?

One word: Artemis


Yup, I know.

Just wanted to put it out there :D

Offline Machiavelliest

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 01:28:05 am »
I think an adjustment to the AoE would keep the Artemis viable, but keep a shop from disabling another ship with a single Compton drive-by.

Offline awkm

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 10:49:58 am »

Offline awkm

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 01:34:08 pm »
Also, in regards to Piercing:

There are a few things that make this hard to balance:
  • To kill, you must reduce hull armor.  Piercing is the only solution.  This is obvious.
  • Piercing controls the length of an encounter (time to kill) and therefore the speed of a match
  • Because Piercing is so essential, it is difficult to pair with other damage types without being high DPS vs. armor and high DPS vs. hull (therefore OP)

The only thing I can think of right now that doesn't literally make me hurl myself off a building is piercing and fire.

That would be hilarious.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2013, 02:28:48 pm »
On an unrelated note regarding gun balance:

I think the flamethrower and rocket carousel feel a bit wimpy these days. Both weapons had their 15 minutes of fame as feared weapons on the battlefield but were nerfed out of the meta.

For me there are two ways they could be beefed up a bit:

1) By directly by increasing total dps.  I don't think the carousel was really op in 1.14 except for the massive aoe and I think returning some of it's other attributes like rate of fire and reload would make it more viable.  Increasing the per particle damage of the flamethrower would definitely make it more attractive to players.

2) Reducing the stacks of fire needed to kick someone off a gun.  Yes I remember what fire used to be like, and though I didn't really have a problem with it then I understand peoples concerns regarding its affects on fun factor for new players. That being said, I have never seen a level 8 fire on a gun since 1.14, so, maybe that much fire stack for a gun ejection is a bit high.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: GUNS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 02:31:33 pm »
Oh and though I know it's already being worked on, have to mention the harpoon.

More force on the tow line please. That, and a little more piercing would be nice as well.