Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches

[Wundsalz]

I do see the need for regulating ship-swaping in competitive matches, but also dislike the approaches which have been suggested so far, while not being able to provide a better one.

I dislike blind picks, as that would force all teams to play conservative. Ships like squids, spires or lumberfishes would be a even more rare spot than they currently are.

One potential way of handling it would be that one team locks one ship, the other team locks their ships, then the first team locks their final ship.

I also dislike this approach as it grants the first team a major advatage. E.g. it could pick a ship that's an allrounder and can be paired up with almost anything (e.g. hades/flak Pyra), look what the enemy chooses and pick a hardcounter for the enemies build as last choice.

Alternatively there is the MOBA style drafting, but with 2-3 ships per team instead of 5 heroes, that might be pretty shallow.

I think it's a bad idea to restrict the build-options GoIO has got to offer.

For larger tournaments some sort of token system for ship/weapon swaps might be an approach for a solution of this issue. I can't think of a proper implementation though, right now  . Let the teams pick blindly, and if a team thinks they can't encounter the enemy with their build somehow limited tokens can be used to adjust the ship/loadout. Something like this.

[Sammy B. T.]

I made this and am planning to update it throughout the Hephaestus Challenge.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TL2sDT6Xc9UwSu6YgAuQ2gdnTQRCxA-uFRO1KH4fLtE/edit?usp=sharing
*this counts the GwTh ships against the OVW fun team from the forfeit the other week but not the OVW ships

In the 4 weeks we have seen
61 Pyras
13 Junkers
11 Goldies
4 Galleons
3 Mobulas
1 Squid
1 Spire

Of the 14 teams

Four teams have brought only pyramidions. (MH, Rydr, DPA, SIR)
Only two teams have brought a majority of ships other than pyramidions. (Muse, TAW)

[Dementio]

Let the teams decide in beforehand?
Make a small lobby where the captains of the teams (crew optional) are going to chose their ships X hours or days or whatever before the match begins and then have the ref write them down.

The actual match later on would then start in a very short time and both teams had the chance to practise their builds against the enemy builds.

This would of course not work so well with one-day tournaments like SCS and would also negate the surprise effect of a "secret weapon" that might just be a Spire.
Another negative point would be that everybody who has anything to say about the ship decision of their own team has to be available at that specific time, may it be the very captain or just a random crewmember. And tournament times themselves are at times rather hard to keep... And then one of the pilots drop and he can't play this ship so the ship has to be changed...


We live in troublesome times.

[Dutch Vanya]

BAN THE PYRAMIDION FROM COMPETITIVE GOI!

Not the most serious solution, but it would be interesting to see what happened

[Imagine]

This is really delving into a problem that doesn't exist. Teams will always make certain adjustments before matches, whether it's through loadouts or player tools. Restricting that is pretty asinine, and having a timer a self-imposed timer for competitive matches seems to be pretty effective in dealing with presumed extended lobby time.

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

This is really delving into a problem that doesn't exist. Teams will always make certain adjustments before matches, whether it's through loadouts or player tools. Restricting that is pretty asinine, and having a timer a self-imposed timer for competitive matches seems to be pretty effective in dealing with presumed extended lobby time.

The idea of playing cat and mouse with counters to counters is a problem that doesn't exist?  I say it certainly exists, and this is not the first game to have that problem.

[Imagine]

This is really delving into a problem that doesn't exist. Teams will always make certain adjustments before matches, whether it's through loadouts or player tools. Restricting that is pretty asinine, and having a timer a self-imposed timer for competitive matches seems to be pretty effective in dealing with presumed extended lobby time.

The idea of playing cat and mouse with counters to counters is a problem that doesn't exist?  I say it certainly exists, and this is not the first game to have that problem.

I don't doubt it exists to some point, but not to a major fault problem.

Plus, if you think metamidions are a problem now, why would anyone ever pick anything else if they're going into a match blind?

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

This is really delving into a problem that doesn't exist. Teams will always make certain adjustments before matches, whether it's through loadouts or player tools. Restricting that is pretty asinine, and having a timer a self-imposed timer for competitive matches seems to be pretty effective in dealing with presumed extended lobby time.

The idea of playing cat and mouse with counters to counters is a problem that doesn't exist?  I say it certainly exists, and this is not the first game to have that problem.

I don't doubt it exists to some point, but not to a major fault problem.

Plus, if you think metamidions are a problem now, why would anyone ever pick anything else if they're going into a match blind?

Personally, I don't think they are a problem, but if you want to pick a specialized ship with a glaring weakness, the only way you're going to be able to do that is if you pick second or you take a chance in blind pick.

[Mysterious Medic]

Anyone who thinks picking counters is a problem in GOIO competitive doesn't really understand competitive GOIO. Good teams have their set ships and load outs that they endeavor to master over a week or over months. Teams that stick with their tried and practiced builds have a track-history of doing better than teams who hard counter. If any hard countering is going on in competitive GOIO, it's hard countering that has been practiced days to weeks before the game, not during the few minutes before the game when picking ships and loadouts. Just look back at matches and you can see how it is often more succesful to work past counters and fly differently than simply reverse hard counter with a build or ship that you and your crew may not have practiced.

[Tanya Phenole]

The recent competitive matches showed that having builds you are confident with is better than fully countering build. The Cake-Merry Men match showed it pretty well last week

So build switch is quite dangerous practice

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

Anyone who thinks picking counters is a problem in GOIO competitive doesn't really understand competitive GOIO. Good teams have their set ships and load outs that they endeavor to master over a week or over months. Teams that stick with their tried and practiced builds have a track-history of doing better than teams who hard counter. If any hard countering is going on in competitive GOIO, it's hard countering that has been practiced days to weeks before the game, not during the few minutes before the game when picking ships and loadouts. Just look back at matches and you can see how it is often more succesful to work past counters and fly differently than simply reverse hard counter with a build or ship that you and your crew may not have practiced.

People practice counterpicks in any large competitive game.  Fielders play batters to hit to a certain side of the field in baseball.  Basketball coaches call different defenses to deal with different offenses.  Soccer coaches have different formations.  Fighting game players practice counterpick characters.  DotA players practice counter builds.  The more potential a game has, the more players will invest time to yes, practice the counter.  So say you're right and the only hard countering done has been practiced beforehand.  If both teams have practiced counters, then they are still going to play a cat and mouse game.  The fact that this topic was started proves it is already done in this game.  There are countless examples in other games where players do the same thing, so there should be a hard ruling that doesn't involve whose ping is better to swap at the last second.

[Spud Nick]

Have we see this happen in competitive play yet? Teams switching ships to counter the other than switching back if they get countered?

[RomanKar]

Counter-picking is a problem.  What competitive team can't field at least 2 practiced and reliable teams?  And if 2 pilots have 2 ships they are practiced on, well do the math.  It becomes easy to swap one ship to hard counter.  Then the other team switches.  Then you switch back. 

And the fact that many people have expressed a dislike of blind picking proves that counter picking is a thing.  People won't bring different ships that have a glaring weakness, meaning they will choose a different build when they see their opponent's build.

Maybe one way to go is to choose a ship, but be able to switch weapons?  I think this is becoming a thing.  I know from experience, one side just gives up the countering.  Timers aren't the way to go forward.  Then you just count on being about to swap quickly or some other lobby mini game. 

@Spud Nick, yes, I have seen it.  It's on the VoDs.

[Spud Nick]

Counter-picking is a problem.  What competitive team can't field at least 2 practiced and reliable teams?  And if 2 pilots have 2 ships they are practiced on, well do the math.  It becomes easy to swap one ship to hard counter.  Then the other team switches.  Then you switch back. 

And the fact that many people have expressed a dislike of blind picking proves that counter picking is a thing.  People won't bring different ships that have a glaring weakness, meaning they will choose a different build when they see their opponent's build.

Maybe one way to go is to choose a ship, but be able to switch weapons?  I think this is becoming a thing.  I know from experience, one side just gives up the countering.  Timers aren't the way to go forward.  Then you just count on being about to swap quickly or some other lobby mini game. 

@Spud Nick, yes, I have seen it.  It's on the VoDs.

Cool! Post me a link would you. I want to see witch team won.

[RomanKar]

There were some in this past Sunday Rumble.  I am not referring to my games, though it made have happened on the other side, I did not pay any attention to switching.  We had our "long range" and "short range" setup and stuck to it.

I can almost guarantee, in most matches, someone says, hey look what they're taking, how about we do this instead. 

Either we need to decide whether we are going to make picking and counter-picking part of the game, officially, or we should Blind pick, or we should have a couple different ways, and tournaments can choose which they like. 

Right now, there are no rules.  It needs to be addressed.