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The Spire.
Crafeksterty:
I am allready fairing very well with the spire versus many ships and im not using JUST the merc, i use all sorts of guns.
I do manage to escape lots of damage and if its guns get a degree buff, itl go sniper and not be chosen on close range maps defeating the choice of ships on every map.
I just dont see why having more guns pointing forward is an answer. Of every stat that there is, i truly do believe the acceleration needs a boost to help itself out in positioning for sniper reasons and escapeing for close range reasons.
And i honestly dont need more than that.
I still want an answer to how the 45 degree buff will change the spire versus other snipers or close range encounters or even helping itself out.
Im saying this again and again, the spire is good if done right as it is, the weapons will not change anything about how easy it is to fail with the spire.
I had this theory once before the mercury nerf, i used the spire versus sniper galleon and junkers. So i put a mercury on the lower left. Because i knew we had trouble versus them before of how damn powerfull sniping was then.
This worked, until we got hit. We did dodge a few shots until they did get a LJ shot in, then i tried going the other direction just by going backwards, but the time of it going forward to backwards was too long even with moonshine to be considered "dodging".
--- Quote ---Implying you don't use a Merc in the front and also implying your main gun has the firing arc to make it possible, sure you can fit a lot of weapons and at that point you stop being long range, I can't fanthom what would you bring on a long range Spire other than a Merc, Flak or Artemis. If you go anywhere closer than long range you start getting hit or the enemy simply charges into you and you know what that means, which is why Trifectas with mid range guns are pointless to me.
--- End quote ---
So then it is your oppinion? Ive fought with close range and long range weapons, if you just see the power of close ranges, AI Mortar with Twin Carronade. Hadez with Hwacha and flak or mines. Lumberjack with flak front with gat side (This is FROM long to mid range).
Zenark:
That's what I meant, 'if the bottom left gun faced farther forward.'
I haven't used a gatling on my Spire as a valid build so I don't know it's arcs, just a creepy thought.
I think the Spire fills its niche well. Went up against a standard merc/flak build a week or so ago that had such an in-sync crew that me and my ally with our pub crews stood no chance, we couldn't get close because of his Blenderfish ally, and since they were camping our spawn in Canyon Ambush, we'd always respawn far apart where they could pick one of us off as soon as we spawned in.
Those two rounds were so disheartening that I had to quit playing for the day since it left such a bad taste in my mouth.
Spire is fine.
Crafeksterty:
Dont know if your talking about your crew versus theirs and the carronade or the actuality that is within a spire.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on October 10, 2013, 12:57:48 pm ---I am allready fairing very well with the spire versus many ships and im not using JUST the merc, i use all sorts of guns.
I do manage to escape lots of damage and if its guns get a degree buff, itl go sniper and not be chosen on close range maps defeating the choice of ships on every map.
--- End quote ---
I'm not using JUST the Merc either, but that doesn't mean you can win against a seasoned opponent with a Carronade Spire, I can fuck around in pubs too you know, yet the moment it gets remotely serious, builds that seem to work suddenly turn useless.
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on October 10, 2013, 12:57:48 pm ---I still want an answer to how the 45 degree buff will change the spire versus other snipers or close range encounters or even helping itself out.
Im saying this again and again, the spire is good if done right as it is, the weapons will not change anything about how easy it is to fail with the spire.
--- End quote ---
More concetrated fire power, more room for manuvering and leading targets, more choices for a longer range game with the Spire. It won't help it in close combat cause no matter how much help you get, against a true brawler you will go down in seconds no matter how hard you try.
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on October 10, 2013, 12:57:48 pm ---So then it is your oppinion? Ive fought with close range and long range weapons, if you just see the power of close ranges, AI Mortar with Twin Carronade. Hadez with Hwacha and flak or mines. Lumberjack with flak front with gat side (This is FROM long to mid range).
--- End quote ---
I see you using your opinion just as freely for starters.
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on October 10, 2013, 12:57:48 pm ---I just dont see why having more guns pointing forward is an answer. Of every stat that there is, i truly do believe the acceleration needs a boost to help itself out in positioning for sniper reasons and escapeing for close range reasons.
And i honestly dont need more than that.
--- End quote ---
Now, I'm not trying to pick a fight or sound offensive, just pointing out the fact that this is all opinionated, just want to be clear, how to buff a ship doesn't have a certain way of going about it, everyone is probably gonna point out what they feel the ship could use without screwing it over big time. Just like you did and just like everyone else, inclusing me, did.
Secondly, I have used the close range builds myself, many a time, I've found them to be a crap ton of fun against newbies and clueless players, against players that know how to aim even an Artemis, not so much. Let alone an other carronade from a faster ship can just as easily disable yours and procceed to have an intimate time with your rear, especially since you can only approach with your weapon exposed and you are VERY slow, second slowest in the game I think, only the Junker must be slower (correct me if I'm wrong).
I just want to have fun with this beautiful ship against people that will provide me with a decent challenge as well and as it stands right now, it's neigh impossible even if you go long range.
I'm not trying to say that by turning the top or lower gun more is the be-all-end-all buffs to this ship that will make it uber viable, in all honestly I would much prefer the Spire have around 1200 hull health and better acceleration in order to be able to stand in point like a true sentinel and leave the gun slots alone, but I have to compromise cause most people here will probably jump on me saying this is OP.
I've tested the Spire during the 3x Hull health event and while 1600 health was a bit too much, I think this ship was the only one that could use such a buff, in my head, it made it what I was hoping it would be. A man can dream right?
Oh well, back to reality where the Spire still sucks against decent opposition. Go on.
Captain Smollett:
I've actually never seen the Spire as just a long range ship, since I think t performs best as a mid range ship due to it's ability to change ranges while shooting. The problem with the Spire is that it struggles so much in close range combat that people fear to use it at mid range now.
With a good crew I can often do a good amount of damage mid range to a charging pyra then give the spire a quick twist and finish off the pyra with the right gun to save my ship from its impending doom. The problem with this is that it's ver difficult and inconsistent to pull it off.
If the right gun was turned farther forward and the lower left gun were turned forward a bit it would give the pilot a much more reliable opportunity to have the gun in arc when he makes it to his weapon as well as giving a trifecta opportunity to the engineer if the ship isn't being pummled (like junkers mobulas pyramidions and galleons have). This will finally make the Spire a glass cannon and engagements will become a race between a ship with high firepower and low health against ships with moderate firepower and moderate health.
Currently Spires don't put out enough dps to ever win that race so most pilots choose to use them at long range where they win the dps race since opponents are too far to shoot back.
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