Author Topic: The Current Meta.  (Read 11922 times)

Offline MightyKeb

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The Current Meta.
« on: September 07, 2015, 07:26:14 am »
Ever since gat mortar pyra was dethroned in February I've had some difficulty nailing down the current meta for competitive. Is there a solid opinion on this as of yet?

So far I've seen a big influx in mobulas as of late. It seems that the versatility of artemis' disable and mediocre kill power and the playstyle freedom hades offers has become the new, reliable go-to kill ship, formerly this was the well rounded gat mortar pyra. Junker meta, just like the junker itself, seems to have survived with little harm and thrives around mobula's level partially thanks to carronade nerfs. Galleon, Spire and Fish have also stepped up as not only can they fight carronades more effectively with their vulnerable balloons, but they are also able to utilize the new hwacha very well. But this is balanced out by the excessive usage of Artemis namely on junkers and mobulas. Hwachafish also seems to have taken blenderfish's place in the meta, being much more reliable than before.


I appreciate any efforts to add to this observation or correct me on anything posted above.

Offline Lieutenant Noir

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 08:37:06 am »
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that there is an influx of Mobulas and that seems to be basically the new Meta for Competitive. (Almost no game without one MetaMobula of Hades, double art)
It has very good strengths and noticeable weaknesses.

You missed out the infamous Lumberjack/ Hades combo on a Galleon, probably the only ship with the sheer disable potential of a lumberjack and Hades combination.

I don't even need to mention a squid with a side banshee as it seems to counter the slow mobility of the mobula's turn acceleration

We did have a good few mine launchers on junkers a good while ago and stood fairly well against Blenderfishes, though now they tend to have the standard MetaMob Hades, and Double Art. You tend to see Banshees replace Arts more (probably due to it's versatility in arcs and fast turn speed compensating for the junker's lack of vertical mobility and Art's poor up arcs)

There's a reasonable amount of Hwatchafish w/ Side Carronade and Blenderfish, though you tend to not see Blenderfishes dominate as much as they did previously.

We do get the occasional Pyra and they seem to always have a Hades on it, since you have fairly easy distancing potential with it's forward guns and acceleration.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 09:28:25 am »
I don't see Squid being used in competitive often except for me and a few other pilots, but I definitely think it has edged a little closer to the meta not only due to the buffs it's recieved but also being accepted as the true counter to a Mobula for obvious reasons, which could explain our team's recent streak of success. I've also ran Carrot a few times, Hades Art pyra is used because of both the range control opportunities and the art disables. Carro art is used because pyra needs to avoid piercing-explosive confrontations to survive. I rarely see gat mortar pyras outside of pubs.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:32:15 am by MightyKeb »

Offline Dementio

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 09:35:52 am »
Mobula OP, I don't even know for how long I have been using that phrase.
The Meta was the Metajunker and Gat/Mortar Pyramidion with either a Hades/Flak (or Artemis) Pyramidion ally or some kind of Fish as ally. The Hades/Lumberjack/Heavy Flak Galleon, with close range heavy guns on the other side, was also a Meta and often accompanied by a Junker or Pyramidion.
Pyramidion is outgunned by a Mobula and the Junker is more easily disabled than a Mobula, while on top of that the Mobula can control the range against the Junker.
The Mobula is guaranteed to be outmatched by a single strategy that only a few ships can execute: Circling. A Squid has a very easy time flying around a Mobula and even Junkers do well circling it when giving the chance. Most other ships don't have the speed to circle around a ship, while keeping good dps against the enemy without taking to much damage itself. As in a Fish loses arcs of its important heavy gun, Spire loses almost all gun arcs when trying to circle, Pyramidion is too slow and a Galleon succeeding in circling a Mobula is a joke.

Although Hades/double Artemis has proven to be a favourite combination for long range light guns, the real Meta will always be close range brawling.
The invincible Paddling lost to the Brood, who charged in and killed them with Gatling and Mortar (while disabling the heavy guns of the Galleon with the Mercury while charging in), Wolfpack was unstoppable, because double Gatling and double Mortar had more power than anything, Holy Roman Army (Holy and SPQR) had a similar strategy with a Metamidion and a Gat/Carro Pyramidion and the Glowwater Thralls' ambushes always ended in close range, with the rare exception of a long range ship playing bait.

To make brawling easier for themselves, teams often took at least one disable ship to ensure that a ship was either in a vulnerable position or that the other ship was basically alone. Some other disable ships are also build on to just weaken the enemy so they die even quicker. Lumberjack, Carronades and Carrots put the enemy in a bad position and ships like the Gat/Carro Pyramidion weakened with a Gatling, negated vertical escape with the Carronade and was able to put a ship completely out of combat too.

A ship that excelled at disabling in close range was the Goldfish. Hwachas could always disable an entire ship with ease and the Carronade could always destroy a balloon in two shots or less. Because teams wanted to snipe each other all the time, the Goldfish was quite low on the tier list, but now that teams actually engage each other inside 1km, I guess it is arguably the perfect and best support ship.
Hwachafish only gets more spotlight than the Blenderfish now, because people for some reason think Blenderfish is bad, but it can still destroy a balloon within one clip, that is all it ever had to do to win a teamfight and survive every 1v1.

Spires also tend to dominate in brawling, because they have a heavy gun of their own and still have 3 slots for light guns left to kill the enemy with.


Thus the conlcusion on the current Meta:
Long range -> Mobula, with Junker and Galleon being behind on the Meta list. Also known as ships that can perform well in any range, which the Mobula does better than the Junker and Galleon since it doesn't have to turn 180° for close range guns to have arc.
Close range -> Goldfish and something with Gatling/Mortar. Also known as the basic Kill Ship plus Support Ship team.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:46:16 am by Dementio »

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 04:31:45 pm »
I think the problem is that at this point everything has been nerfed, except hwacha. It's easy to say hwacha fish is the meta, which it is. But it's not the meta because it's a spectacular build. It's the meta because it's the only build that hasn't been nerfed into boredom. When I look at all the other guns and ships (minus my favourite double lumberjack galleon that I NEED two great gunners for) there so...UGH!

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 04:41:38 pm »
Isn't this the mark of a well balanced game? If there is no obvious best build?

Offline Dementio

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 07:42:20 pm »
Isn't this the mark of a well balanced game? If there is no obvious best build?

The Meta, as I described it, consists of ships excelling in general. Once you go a little bit more specific other ships can dominate.

Example: Squid beats Mobula, but Squid isn't Meta.

But that is just a direct hardcounter. The effectiveness of the Meta also shifts depending on what team has more control of the battlefield or has a direct positional advantage. I am thinking about teams ambushing their enemy or charging at them in formation before the enemy has the chance to think something up.

Example: The Spire can beat pretty much every ship, long range and close range, but that doesn't make the Spire Meta either.

But a Spire with Gatlings, Mortars and a Hwacha would just make a better Metamidion, so are there obvious best gun builds? Same as the above: Gatlings combined with Mortars and Hadeses combined with Artemis is just general.

Ignoring distinctive ship attributes, Example: Gat/Artemis beats Gat/Mortar.

And then we can apply the above logic of control and position again and the example can be turned around.



So what I am trying to say here is that there are obvious best builds in general, but it doesn't mean that they always win.

Example from a scrim of Rydr vs. Mad Hatters (a Gent team) a long while ago: Their Metagalleon beats my favourite Mobula, two matches in a row on Fjords.

There is no best best build, because victory and defeat depend on a lot more factors than just bringing a general ship.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 08:08:41 pm by Dementio »

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 07:46:24 pm »
Good description

Offline Dryykon

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2015, 02:38:02 pm »
Isn't this the mark of a well balanced game? If there is no obvious best build?

Games that are fairly balanced typically have a meta. These metas almost always change over time. Typically it goes: a good player/team in pub games/competitive uses a certain ship very well. Others copy the build/gameplay style and it's considered a meta.

An example of this is after a popular LoL contest ends, the characters on the winning team are played significantly more afterwards. Over time, builds/styles that beat the meta will arise, and eventually become the new meta. There are other reasons meta's occur, but in competitive, this is usually the reason. As a newer player, if I see a ship being used effectively, I typically copy it and test it out. I imagine many new-mid level players do this.

It's also interesting to note the difference between public server meta's (pub-stomping) and competitive meta's. Though, I usually go for the "easiest for noobs to understand" ship rather than the meta. :p



« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 02:39:56 pm by Dryykon »

Offline Hunter.

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 05:43:28 pm »

It's also interesting to note the difference between public server meta's (pub-stomping) and competitive meta's. Though, I usually go for the "easiest for noobs to understand" ship rather than the meta. :p


An example of this in action - is taking a carronade and flamethrower in a pub game over a gatling and mortar. This is because my definition of a "meta" is: The easiest to execute strategy to yield the highest winrate. In a pub game my crew may not know to break hull before firing a mortar, and in the same vein the enemy crew may not have good chem spray rotations, therefore the simplest method to win would be to disable with fire and fire carronades (carronades being effective anywhere they hit; disabling equipment or popping balloons). Whereas in a competitive game the meta would be something harder to execute with as few counters as possible - such as a mobula with both long and short range weapons resulting in a ship which is usable in most situations (easy to execute) and has a high winrate (main counter is a much harder to execute ship, or "out of meta").

However, as more people get better at using the squid - the squid becomes easier and easier to execute resulting in a new meta arising - and when the squid meta finally comes trust me, I will be there on the front lines #Squid4Life.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 07:37:18 pm »
Double buff kill squid is the scariest ship

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 07:51:43 am »
Double buff kill squid is the scariest ship

Unless its a buff gunner (as apposed to engi)

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2015, 11:06:15 am »

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2015, 01:55:36 pm »
Double buff kill squid is the scariest ship

Unless its a buff gunner (as apposed to engi)
A Bard for only a week and already trolling the community. Atta boy, Kam, atta boy

Offline Princess Tutu

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2015, 05:31:34 pm »
The current meta is simple: Mobula + anything else

How I miss the Hades+Echidna Pyra. Actually I miss the Echidna in general. What happened?