Author Topic: It's The Clawwwwwww!  (Read 58144 times)

Offline Dementio

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2014, 08:26:59 pm »
I do believe somebody is underestimating the mobula a bit. Tactics, of course, can beat every ship.

I actually am against decreasing the damage hydrogen does. I use this very tool to destroy my balloon to go low really fast, if my balloon has enough damage, ON THE MOBULA.
Chute vent might require a bit of love, it only works so well for so many ships.

Even though creating new tools takes some time and effort for MUSE, I also agree that more possibilities could remove the phoenix claw from a few pilot loadouts.

Offline Queso

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2014, 08:29:07 pm »
Pilot tools are going to see some love soon. The tar change in the next patch (and up in dev app now) is a bit of a preview of things to come.

Offline RomanKar

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2014, 11:28:41 am »
Make PC have a activate, then a cooldown.  Let's say it works for like 3 seconds, then goes on a 15 second cooldown.

Honestly, I think all pilot tools should have a cooldown just like repairing stuff.

You get the effect, which lasts a certain amount of time, does a certain amount of damage, then goes on cooldown, and no other pilot tools can be used until that cooldown expires. 

This way, ships would actually have the stats they were given for most of a match rather than having some sort of buff on most of the time.  It would also  make buffs much more effective and increased the need for more crew cooperation and communication.

Of course, engines wouldn't suffer near as much and the main engi on a pyri could get really bored, or just a lot less dizzy.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2014, 12:35:45 pm »
So no more burning across the map, pulling long pc turns, using drouge long term to combat, or using impact bumper in a preventive fashion? Most tools in this game do not operate in small timed bursts, why do we need to drastically change the game to make it like that?

Offline RomanKar

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2014, 12:59:26 pm »
Why do you have to use drastic amounts of piloting tools in order to pilot effectively?  As it stands now, Pilots should get one less item to loadout, get the PC buff and engines should slowly take damage.  What's the point of having base turning stats if every pilot worth a damn is gonna be using PC when they need to turn?  PC should be able to be bound to the same keys as turning left and right as it stands now. 

Furthermore, the Squid is the boat that gets hit the hardest by the ubiquity of PC.  Other ships are gonna turn better, so you don't have the edge you're supposed to.  And the Squid is by far the hardest ship to maintain engines on.  IMHO, if you simply take PC out of the game, the Squid would instantly become a better more competitive ship. 

Now does it seem right to anyone that a ship gets an indirect nerf simply because PC has to be taken to be a decent pilot?

For every upside, there has to be a downside.  Tar had this problem, that Sammy knew better than most and exploited it for quite some time.  PC has no downside, none, and it really can't be argued otherwise.

It skews ship balance.  And if everyone is always using it, why does it need to be there at all?  Just give every ship a buff in turning and get rid of it.

Offline Echoez

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2014, 02:17:24 pm »
It skews ship balance.  And if everyone is always using it, why does it need to be there at all?  Just give every ship a buff in turning and get rid of it.

Well, it does burn engines quite a bit if you leave it on, buffing all ships to turn like they do with Phoenix wouldn't exactly burn their engines for it, but you do, undeniably, have a point with that argument, I'm all for faster ship battles.

Offline pandatopia

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2014, 02:22:29 pm »
Thats kind of like saying, "why is greased ammo used so much?" or "why do engineers like to use the mallet so much?".

Pilot tools imo SHOULD be something that is constantly being used in an engagement, and proper use of them separates the great pilots from the good ones.

If we want ships to be using "vanilla" stats 90% of the time, why don't we have engie pilots more often? Why even have the pilot role? All engie ships from now on!

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2014, 02:27:48 pm »
Greased ammo and mallet have their disadvantages. Claw does not.

Offline pandatopia

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2014, 02:35:45 pm »
Greased ammo and mallet have their disadvantages. Claw does not.

Claw has a disadvantage simply taking up a slot.

I don't mean to say it isn't powerful, or perhaps even THE most powerful, but there are plenty of other viable tools to fill that slot.

Offline Queso

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2014, 02:38:42 pm »
But few other tools of any class completely negates one of the intended weaknesses of a given ship.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2014, 02:45:05 pm »
Greased ammo and mallet have their disadvantages. Claw does not.

Claw has a disadvantage simply taking up a slot.

I don't mean to say it isn't powerful, or perhaps even THE most powerful, but there are plenty of other viable tools to fill that slot.

Correct. Problem is as Queso says, if your enemy brings it, you're in trouble if you don't. It shouldn't be required.

Offline RomanKar

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2014, 02:54:37 pm »
Your engineer and gunner analogy is inaccurate.  If you use the wrong ammo or engineer tool at the wrong time, it can be fatal.  Ever had someone hit a Squid hull with a Mallet in the middle of a battle?  A hell of a lot more punishing than leaving PC on for an entire match.  Having lesmok loaded when you should have greased can mean a loss of DPS that can cause you to lose an engagement.  PC overuse has never meant the difference between life and death.

Try again.

I would further contend that if you SHOULD be constantly using pilot tools, then there really is no truly proper use.  You can't constantly use Hydro or Chute vent, Drogue Chute, or Moonshine or Impact bumpers without severe penalties that should lead to your demise.  Kerosene and Phoenix Claw can be used constantly.  Kerosene has a direct competitor in Moonshine.  Phoenix Claw has no direct competitor and can be constantly used. 

Hitting 2 at the same time you hit A or D takes no skill.  Knowing when to reverse engines to speed up your turn does.  Knowing good angles and bad angles does. 

This is the same umbrella as dominant meta builds.  If some element of a game becomes ubiquitous, the game starts to become stale, certain builds and ships and guns and ammo become dominant and seen over and over again. Phoenix Claw is the most dominant element of this game.  NO pilot worth a damn would be caught dead without it.  It's not even a question.  It's the only item I never change in any loadout -- gunner, engi, or pilot.

Any other slot, you have to ask and answer questions to determine what should be there.  I've never not run PC as a pilot.  Like ever.  Even when I was running with a Spyglass, I still ran with PC.  It's a no-brainer to take it, it's a no-brainer when to use it (if you're turning).

Where exactly is the skill in using PC?  Feels to me it's more a crutch for those that have less skill.  Oh, that junker is in my blind spot, guess I'll just PC.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 02:56:27 pm by RomanKar »

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2014, 05:00:29 pm »
For me phoenix claw, and a speed tool are just essential to control the ship in any situation. And completely ingrained in how i do so. If i wanna make a slightly sharper turn, even outside of combat i use phoenix claw. I do think those tools seperate the average players from the people that really know how to control the ships, and the engineers that can really keep them running perfectly.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2014, 10:52:43 pm »
Im sad this hasn't even gone into testing yet ;/

Offline macmacnick

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Re: It's The Clawwwwwww!
« Reply #89 on: October 05, 2014, 10:38:52 pm »
Make claw so it does slightly less damage than moonshine, but enough that it is unsustainable over a long period of use without breaks.