Author Topic: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches  (Read 57452 times)

Offline RomanKar

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2014, 07:12:54 pm »
I agree, Spud Nick, but right now, with no rules, is last second swapping unsportsmanlike?  Where is the line between getting a good setup against your opponent and trickery?

And let me be very clear.  I am accusing no one of unsportsmanlike behavior.  This is a somewhat forward looking theoretical thing, that is already somewhat happening.  I don't want good respectable community members accused of unsportsmanlike behavior simply because they went a little too deep into the grey area we are already in.

I just want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand, which it verges on at times now.

Offline RomanKar

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2014, 07:31:02 pm »
After having thought about this for a while, I'm not sure why we are able to see the other team's ships before a game at all.  I'm hard pressed to think of a pvp system that allows you to see the other team's loadout and make changes without some sort of draft system.

It certainly gives a huge edge to veteran players in pub matches, maybe more than they deserve to have.

Just my opinion, but I really do think lobbies should be blind somehow. 

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2014, 07:38:54 pm »
the amount of pyras would skyrocket in fear of getting countered if you have first pick

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2014, 07:41:36 pm »
Swapping ships or weapons to counter your opponent shouldn't be seen as bad sportsman ship. It's a valid strategy that has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
I think they mean swapping at the very last moment, to trick the opponent into thinking you are going to use other builds is seen as bad sportsmanship. Not just changing builds in an effort to counter.

Offline RomanKar

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2014, 07:49:36 pm »
See Vanya, that is the very grey area I'm talking about.  How late is too late?  How many swaps are too many swaps.  And why is a last second swap unsportsmanlike?  It's not against the rules, and the best team should win, right?

That's why this area needs to be addressed.

Offline Imagine

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2014, 08:10:11 pm »
See Vanya, that is the very grey area I'm talking about.  How late is too late?  How many swaps are too many swaps.  And why is a last second swap unsportsmanlike?  It's not against the rules, and the best team should win, right?

That's why this area needs to be addressed.
It really doesn't though. I've never heard anyone even remotely consider this an issue before this thread.

Offline ramjamslam

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2014, 08:13:19 pm »
After having thought about this for a while, I'm not sure why we are able to see the other team's ships before a game at all.  I'm hard pressed to think of a pvp system that allows you to see the other team's loadout and make changes without some sort of draft system.

It certainly gives a huge edge to veteran players in pub matches, maybe more than they deserve to have.

Just my opinion, but I really do think lobbies should be blind somehow. 

Not being able to see the other teams ships sounds like a cool idea for a match option.

Offline Queso

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2014, 09:08:34 pm »
Well, if someone wants to run a tournament with a draft or blind format, I'd love to see it.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2014, 02:34:40 am »
So if somone could shout out what counters gat mortar pyra i would be all ears ^.^ ill perfect that build

Junkers as demonstrated by the Mandarins easily counter pyras.

Though very much out of favor these days, one single well crewed asymmetrical Galleon with a coordinated escort ship like the Paddling used to run will rip to pieces a gat mortar pyra.  It's been a long time since I've played competitively but when I did I pretty much always saw pyras as easy Galleon kills and picked on any pyras we faced to win matches.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2014, 02:50:28 am »
So if somone could shout out what counters gat mortar pyra i would be all ears ^.^ ill perfect that build

Junkers as demonstrated by the Mandarins easily counter pyras.


Thats only because 1 gat cannot bring down the armor of a Junker in one clip. Seriously Junkers should not be so durable. It is part due to their low profile but there aren't any real armor plates on the junker. Its all hull. At the very least it should be reverse. Easy to strip armor but hard to kill the hull.

If that was changed, Metamidions could easily take down Junkers. Pyra's for how strong they are, are very weak ships given the fact they are all hull but have shit armor and move like flying turds. Muse changed that because all you people cried out that they were OP. They weren't OP, people were just too dumb in figuring out how to counter them.

As it sits, I'd rather not take any meta vs Junkers. Better to blend them down than to sit there waiting for clips to finally strip armor hoping the mortars hit their marks in time.

If ship swapping is a problem then we just need a blind mode for competitive play that can be enabled like Scramble is. Problem solved.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2014, 05:46:56 am »
On a side note. Mastery of a ship and it's build will give you a better chance at victory than trying to counter your opponent.

Offline Hunter.

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2014, 07:39:53 am »
Swapping ships or weapons to counter your opponent shouldn't be seen as bad sportsman ship. It's a valid strategy that has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

What is the weakness of selecting the stronger ship combination?

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2014, 08:55:23 am »
Swapping ships or weapons to counter your opponent shouldn't be seen as bad sportsman ship. It's a valid strategy that has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

What is the weakness of selecting the stronger ship combination?
Ships run less smoothly if the crew doesn't run it like a well-oiled machine, which is not to be expected if it's not properly trained before. Different ships and loadouts often require a significantly different playstyle and positioning. The less a ship-combination is flown together the more pilot-miscommunications and positioning errors occur.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2014, 09:35:58 am »
I think you lose a lot of damage from your build when you try to counter as well. Most of the counter builds seem to favor disabling in order to get the advantage over the other ships.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Ship swapping in Lobby before competitive matches
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2014, 01:48:30 pm »
So if somone could shout out what counters gat mortar pyra i would be all ears ^.^ ill perfect that build

Junkers as demonstrated by the Mandarins easily counter pyras.

Though very much out of favor these days, one single well crewed asymmetrical Galleon with a coordinated escort ship like the Paddling used to run will rip to pieces a gat mortar pyra.  It's been a long time since I've played competitively but when I did I pretty much always saw pyras as easy Galleon kills and picked on any pyras we faced to win matches.

I've always seen pyramidions as easy targets too. Too bad that everyone in the haephestus challenge seems to be scared to use anything but pyras.