Spawn system feedback 1.3.4

[The Djinn]

I personally like the idea of this, for instance after death the game chooses a spawn within a ring at x distance from enemy ships should an allied vessel be within x proximity of an enemy vessel, should an allied vessel not be within x distance of an enemy vessel the game chooses a spawn within a ring x distance of an allied vessel.

Basically, yes. Although I'd suggest the formula take the form of "Within X distance, but no closer than Y distance," to prevent spawns within immediate proximity.

So, say, between (X to Y) distance if an ally is in combat, or within (2X to 2Y) if an ally is not in combat. Numbers subject to adjustment: this is just a formula that shows the idea better.

[Thomas]

4v4 have always been pretty chaotic though, but I can see it getting even more so with ship getting back into the fight directly on spawn.


The only issue I have with most of these ideas is that while it does solve the brawler builds spawning right on your face, it doesn't stop a long range build from spawning within easy shooting range of you. So by fixing the brawler on mah face issue, it'd be promoting more long range builds, making it more difficult for the brawl builds. Since they'd spawn further away (like normal) and the long range ships can shoot them as they approach. Where if the long range is taken out, they can spawn in a prime location and snipe away.


The issue with creating 'bases' or spawn zones for each team is that it could promote more camping (see: canyon ambush). One team almost always camps near their spawn locations and forces the other team to engage them. If the camping team is taken out, they can still spawn on their face, where if the attacking team is taken out, it's a long fly back.

I can't really see an ideal solution for this. Something that might work is making the respawn take longer depending on how close they are to their team spawn. If they're very close, make it take longer, while if it's pretty far off, make it take shorter. Then you can set the team spawns in such a way as they can't instantly engage across the spawns. This means if the attackers were killed by the campers, they'd be able to get back their faster. While if the campers were killed, they wouldn't be able to instantly spawn on their head. Balancing it in such a way as it would take about the same time for both teams to reach the location.

So if team A is 20 seconds from their spawn, and team B is 5 seconds from their spawn; Team A might have a 10 second respawn where team B might have a 25 second respawn. This would promote teams to engage further from their spawn. The team 'bases' should also reduce the amount of spawning on heads or in ideal sniping locations right from the get go.

[The Djinn]

The only issue I have with most of these ideas is that while it does solve the brawler builds spawning right on your face, it doesn't stop a long range build from spawning within easy shooting range of you. So by fixing the brawler on mah face issue, it'd be promoting more long range builds, making it more difficult for the brawl builds. Since they'd spawn further away (like normal) and the long range ships can shoot them as they approach. Where if the long range is taken out, they can spawn in a prime location and snipe away.

Which is the strength of long range, and something that's always been the case. Close range ships need to close the distance: it's a bigger problem on, say, Dunes, but I'd say that map already has a bunch of issues.

By having a maximum and minimum distance there's still some spawn luck involved, but you can keep spawns within realistic ranges: not 2600m on the other side of the map, but also not 30m away and right behind you.

The issue with creating 'bases' or spawn zones for each team is that it could promote more camping (see: canyon ambush). One team almost always camps near their spawn locations and forces the other team to engage them. If the camping team is taken out, they can still spawn on their face, where if the attacking team is taken out, it's a long fly back.

This is why I recommend doing away with "base" spawn zones after the game has begun: it's more fair if teams don't have that home turf spawn advantage.

[Captain Smollett]

I think we should have a bit more discussion about increasing the spawn timer.

[Thomas]

The main cause for increasing the timer (and leaving everything else the same) is to make it less likely that ships will respawn on top of you. I think the current respawn is 20 seconds or so if you're fast (or longer if you're like me and forget that you have to manually spawn). This lets the team that killed more time to move away from the area/shake their spots and/or kill the remaining teammate.

The downside of course is that it makes the gameplay feel a lot slower. Being killed sucks. Having to wait 20+ seconds sucks harder. Generally the surviving ships are going to stay near that area until they beat down the remaining ship. Which means that you'd have the make the respawn timer pretty long to give them time to do so. They could of course run away, but players tend not to do that. They have the advantage, and as long as one of the enemy is alive, they're more likely to be spotted, giving away their location on the map. Running away also tends to open up their blindspots, and they'll take a lot of damage from the survivor (maybe).

In general it's not that bad of an idea, as you usually couldn't get back to your ally in time to save them under the previous random spawn system anyways. Unless you got super lucky, or they ran away. I do think that the added time of staring at the map waiting for the timer to count down would turn a lot of players off from the game though. And it would make that first kill that much more important.

[Regule]

Either a lucky or a unlucky spawn after an engagement could decide the game for you or the opponent.
Such a luck factor doestn suit competetive gaming.

Agreed, however current solution also don't fit into competitive gaming.
Look at it this way, when you are sunk you can show up to battle with new ship
in about 15 seconds. And if enemies are still spotted, and they usually will be
as they are engaging your allay, you can choose to pop onto their blind spots.

It means that getting destroyed, while still costing you point and moving closer
to ultimate defeat, provides you with short time of tactical advantage. 
In competitive games you shouldn't gain any advantages from loosing
unless you think about sacrificing units to achieve long term goal in strategy games 
but GoI gameplay type don't really fit this sort of tactics.

I think that base system will fix that problem as each map will have sort of safe spot
where you can count on your temmate spawning close, although sadly this solution will
probably make camping more popular.

Also like Dutch Vanya said, it should be optional at least until tested and refined.

[Crafeksterty]

I really hate giving this type of feedback to a small group of people who really have created such an awesome game.

But this current spawning system is destroying it. 2 Days ago, i introduced the Competetive side to a friend who has never played goio and said that he instantly sees what is going on and what makes it competetive etc, unlike how league of legends requiers knowledge within the game to see what makes THAT so competetive.

Having a small Blue baloon, or Red baloon to determine which side is which. And ofc to identify where the main spawns are. For example, the fjord spawns are really easy to get lucky spawns at when the fight is at one of the bases. With the concept of having to ONLY spawn at your own side, the MAIN spawns should have colored baloons to remind the enemy team that their enemies can spawn there. All other available spawns should remain invisible to their side.

This will makes things more predictable in a way where the enemy may not want to get close to those enemy baloons when they just have destroyed a ship. OR they want to get close so they spawn kill BUT they didnt choose to spawn at their main bases (oh no!)   So all of a sudden you have a bit more predictable and competetive strategy going on with spawns.

[HamsterIV]

I have noticed some players choosing to spawn as close to the action as possible even if they are at a tactical disadvantage. This lead to some brutal meat grinding where the loosing side didn't have the chance to regroup and plan the next encounter.  I didn't die too often so I didn't get to see the specifics of the spawning system. Is there an exclusion zone around hostile ships so a respawned ship doesn't appear right on top of it? Maybe it should be widened so that there is more intensive to retreat back to your teammate.

[Mod Josie]

I have noticed some players choosing to spawn as close to the action as possible even if they are at a tactical disadvantage. This lead to some brutal meat grinding where the loosing side didn't have the chance to regroup and plan the next encounter.  I didn't die too often so I didn't get to see the specifics of the spawning system. Is there an exclusion zone around hostile ships so a respawned ship doesn't appear right on top of it? Maybe it should be widened so that there is more intensive to retreat back to your teammate.

At this time there is not an exclusion zone. Possibly the inclusion of one would give teams some breathing space?

[Urz]

How long before people start getting free kills by mining up most likely spawn points?

EDIT: Or people killing themselves at match start to get free respawn somewhere else.

[Mod Josie]

How long before people start getting free kills by mining up most likely spawn points?

EDIT: Or people killing themselves at match start to get free respawn somewhere else.

I've already seen it. The system is too easy to abuse.

[Thomas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY5Yt_Iwctg

Here's a video of a match earlier today on Fjords. I think this map has the sides divided a little more, although you still see them spawning at the same point pretty much on top of each other near the end.

[Cheesy Crackers]

i was in the match Jacob mentioned and while waterhazard wasn't so bad, the 3v3 CP match was just a fuster cluck the entire time. my ships voice chat was just filled with "OH GOD the *enemy ship* spawned right behind us!".

so my suggestion? when you die, make any 2 spawn locations available at random. Or make it so that if an enemy ship is within a certain distance, lets say one square of the map, that spawn point is no longer available to anyone.

(*Have not played a match with this yet*)
^ I think that could work out better, combining random spawns with choice spawns. Giving 2 random spawn points and if there are 2 opposing ships within a certain spawn then that spawn is disabled and wont be randomised.
Or getting rid of choice spawns  completely and being able to set a "spawn preference", away from enemy, closer to enemy, near ally (Or something along the lines of that) And it will pick a randomised spawn point which wont be directly on top of an enemy so that you can blow them up a few seconds after you die or spawn further away.

[Mattisamo]

I played a bit yesterday with the spawn system and I have an idea. Disable the middle spawns, and only make it possible to spawn at the edge of the map. This way you can choose your angle of attack after you doe, but you can't spawn on the enemy unless the combat is taking place on said edge.

[Richard LeMoon]

What about a semi-random spawn system instead? A combination of how it is and how it was. Rather than picking your exact spawn, just be able to pick general spawn locations, then you get a random spawn in that area. Sometimes you will get a lucky spawn, sometimes not.