Author Topic: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players  (Read 88569 times)

Offline QKO

  • Member
  • Salutes: 5
    • [TCD]
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2013, 01:42:11 am »
No, this thread has a purpose, you just seem to excel at ignoring it.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2013, 02:08:21 am »
No, this thread has a purpose, you just seem to excel at ignoring it.
It does, it's served as the you make a silly suggestion and everyone says no, stop that thread.

Offline MonsterMutt

  • Member
  • Salutes: 6
    • 8
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2013, 11:19:30 am »
In a nutshell you're proposing that lower level players will need enough commendations from higher level users to play with the "decorated veterans" of GoI.

I don't feel the commendation system would be reliable to judge a new player.  Giving someone a commendation at the end of a match has become the new 'gg' in GoI.  This applies for veteran players as much as for beginners.

Conversely, a few mean spirited players could keep out deserving new players, at least in the short term.  But that may be enough for a few players to get fed up and drop GoI entirely.  Which leads to my next point, I'm afraid this system would encourage elitism.

Sure, in theory Muse could implement all sorts of reporting systems to go after players who give out commendations to everyone or those who conspire against new players.  You also mention investigating players and processing 'appeals'.  To me that just adds too much complexity to the game.  And as far as Muse is concerned they probably already have enough on their plate, they don't want to be playing hall monitor.

I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.

Personally, I love the anarchic and open nature of this game.  It really fits into the post-apocalyptic "Wild West" theme of Guns of Icarus. :)





Offline Letus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 34
    • [SAC]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 33 
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2013, 11:43:10 am »
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.

....just had the visuals of people trying to throw down their guns, jumping at each other to fist-fight, but pancaking into the ground go through my head when I read that....

Offline MonsterMutt

  • Member
  • Salutes: 6
    • 8
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2013, 11:55:46 am »
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.

....just had the visuals of people trying to throw down their guns, jumping at each other to fist-fight, but pancaking into the ground go through my head when I read that....

Aim for the bushes...

Offline QKO

  • Member
  • Salutes: 5
    • [TCD]
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2013, 01:38:00 pm »
It does, it's served as the you make a silly suggestion and everyone says no, stop that thread.
No the point of this thread was to deal with the root cause of certain glaring issues. Rather than having people cry about stacking, planning an inhouse because the pubs are so shitty(https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2389.0.html) or having them cry about rude players(https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2392.0.html). That was the root cause for this thread because, just like I mentioned it was going to happen; it now has happened.

And instead of trying to disprove my initial statement, which was that there are some very annoying players in the game and that they could pose a problem, you instead decided to try to bash me. Because lets face it, you can't really disprove that statement, nor do you want to admit that this is in fact happening. Even if you think my plan sucks, you could at least try to come up with some alternatives that would prevent the need for inhouses or other elitist crap that will in fact disillusion newer players in ways unimaginable.

And now again, the newbie pool is a complete pile of shit, newbies are now diverting to the regular pool to avoid this pile of shit. The newbies are, more often than not, not experienced enough to participate in the regular pool which means they take losses and take shit from players that wish to get them up to speed faster than that they can handle. And what you have now, as quoted earlier are people wishing to inhouse to avoid these newer players.

By all means, think of me what you will, I do not care one tiny little bit. But, I do request you keep out of this thread with your blatantly provocative and stupid remarks.

Offline QKO

  • Member
  • Salutes: 5
    • [TCD]
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2013, 01:49:50 pm »
In a nutshell you're proposing that lower level players will need enough commendations from higher level users to play with the "decorated veterans" of GoI.
You could name them that, or just "regulars"; there's 15 levels in this game, having a minimum requirement of 3 to enter a normal is relatively speaking nothing.
Quote
I don't feel the commendation system would be reliable to judge a new player.  Giving someone a commendation at the end of a match has become the new 'gg' in GoI.  This applies for veteran players as much as for beginners.
So commendations would not be given when such a player doesn't even deserve a gg, this is something that is good. If a player is working to keep up with the current playerbase and gets up to speed in the desired pace, they should have access to the regular pool. The idea is not designed to separate good players from bad players. It's to control the flow of newer players into the regular pool.
Quote
Conversely, a few mean spirited players could keep out deserving new players, at least in the short term.  But that may be enough for a few players to get fed up and drop GoI entirely.  Which leads to my next point, I'm afraid this system would encourage elitism.
Yes, again, the short term. They can be kept in the newbie pool for a little while longer before becoming regulars by automation. Secondly, the newbie pool needs some serious work as it currently puts in a whole lot of people that cannot even walk with people who wish to try to understand the game and wish to get better at it. That is what the second part of the plan was for. If players do not care about learning and playing the game proper, they can do so outside the confines of the regular and newbie pool. Alternatively, we can go to a newbie server and yell at these people until they stop playing.
Quote
Sure, in theory Muse could implement all sorts of reporting systems to go after players who give out commendations to everyone or those who conspire against new players.  You also mention investigating players and processing 'appeals'.  To me that just adds too much complexity to the game.  And as far as Muse is concerned they probably already have enough on their plate, they don't want to be playing hall monitor.
Partially correct, yes it adds complexity for the Muse system should the majority of players decide to appeal the automated decision. But at least it gives Muse grounds to put people in or take people from that pool. That bit of monitoring can make a huge difference. Aside from that, I'm slightly hoping that such a pool will also make the players inside it realize that not playing together will not get anyone anywhere.
Quote
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.
I'd be in favor of a kick system as well, but Muse said "HELL NO!! NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!" so this ends up being the next best thing.
Quote
Personally, I love the anarchic and open nature of this game.  It really fits into the post-apocalyptic "Wild West" theme of Guns of Icarus. :)
It used to work for lots of games, even dota. But when the trolls hit, they just hit hard.

Offline MonsterMutt

  • Member
  • Salutes: 6
    • 8
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2013, 02:14:34 pm »
Quote
So commendations would not be given when such a player doesn't even deserve a gg, this is something that is good.

I think you misunderstood my meaning.  Commendations are often given out by default.  I've joined matches a few seconds before the end and I was receiving commendations from new and experienced players alike...yet I hadn't done anything.  Whereas you see commendations and 'gg' as an evaluation of someones abilities, many people interpret commendations and 'gg' as a way of saying 'thanks for playing, I had fun!'. 

Even if Muse puts in place such a system it will only work if people back it 100%.  Meaning, they agree on what deserves a commendation and they stick to those guidelines.  I just don't see that happening because people will hold different opinions, regardless of their skill level. 

For example I'd give a commendation to a player if he/she is always positive, joking around and fun to play with.

Offline Zenark

  • Member
  • Salutes: 41
    • [Cake]
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2013, 02:19:26 pm »
I actually don't really see a problem with 'inhousing', as you call it. Is it so bad to just play with your friends/clan; not going into public games? They're not hurting anybody by playing privately amongst themselves. As for those who only crew with their clan, oh well. They know they work well together, no need to throw off their flow by adding a lower level player to the crew. If they're stacking, there are other lobbies for one, plus there's nothing stopping another stacked team from joining to face them.

If I join a lobby and see two Duck ships on the other team, I don't stay. Say one of these high level, super competitive clans decides to in-house and they never play publicly again. Who does that hurt? It's just one less clan to be pub stomped by.

Offline QKO

  • Member
  • Salutes: 5
    • [TCD]
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2013, 05:07:15 pm »
I actually don't really see a problem with 'inhousing', as you call it. Is it so bad to just play with your friends/clan; not going into public games? They're not hurting anybody by playing privately amongst themselves. As for those who only crew with their clan, oh well. They know they work well together, no need to throw off their flow by adding a lower level player to the crew. If they're stacking, there are other lobbies for one, plus there's nothing stopping another stacked team from joining to face them.

If I join a lobby and see two Duck ships on the other team, I don't stay. Say one of these high level, super competitive clans decides to in-house and they never play publicly again. Who does that hurt? It's just one less clan to be pub stomped by.
The problem with inhousing is for one the reasoning behind it: "I can't trust regular pub players" and secondly(and more importantly): new players with no connections to the players that are inhousing cannot get in. It means effectively that the pub standards drop to dota level while a select few 'elites' are duking it out amongst themselves. And since the inhouse group has the most experience, they will usually keep a distinct advantage over regular pubbies because the regular pubbies are held back by idiots. This is basically dota all over again.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 05:19:40 pm by QKO »

Offline Captain Smollett

  • Member
  • Salutes: 122
    • [Duck]
    • 11
    • 14 
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2013, 05:36:58 pm »
Pretty much all clans accept new players relatively easily and just about anyone who can gather together 7 other people can enter to play the best in the game.

Offline Plasmarobo

  • Member
  • Salutes: 41
    • [MM]
    • 24
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2013, 10:54:31 pm »
This is all me personally, not me as a CA.
The problem with inhousing is for one the reasoning behind it: "I can't trust regular pub players" and secondly(and more importantly): new players with no connections to the players that are inhousing cannot get in.


There are no passwords to most MM matches. Anyone can join. I like to play with my clanmates most of the time. Why? Because we have a system. We know each other.
Frago knows the hull and engineering better than I do. I can focus on positioning entirely, and which rocks I want to hug out of the vast array! DMax has got my guns, and I know he'll be shouting at me if he can't hit. I play with my clan because they are awesome and they are my friends. I play against other clans because they are awesome and they are my friends. I play against/with/around newbies because I want new friends. Sometimes I don't have patience and I want to play with people who already know. Sometimes I don't mind teaching new players. I'm inconsistent. I'm human.

I don't mind having newbies for pugs when they listen. Some of the best people I played with were newbies. I never would have met them if there was a gate. I'm not going to start being "well, better stop playing with my clan" just because someone implements a gate. Gates are silly. In my opinion this would have nothing but a negative effect on the game. The system works fine, and there are ways to combat actual trolling and destructive behavior. I suggest you adapt your approach to this game accordingly. For me it helps to think of everyone who you find mildly irksome as someone who secretly deeply desires your help and approval. It's narcissistic and it doesn't work for everyone, but it makes me in my little world better able to deal with other humans, especially on the internet where you have to relax pretty much every definition and rule there is, at least for a bit.

The proper solution to your problem is to manually sift players into your friends list. Yes it's a lot of work and require much patience. Yes, it takes a long time. But it is the proper way to do it, and anything worth doing is worth doing well. Gating is not a solution. It's point blank telling people they are second class because of their inexperience.

I don't think this thread is really being constructive anymore. We can continue making the same arguments for and against until infinity and nothing will move.

Offline Piemanlives

  • Member
  • Salutes: 155
    • [Cake]
    • 20
    • 16 
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2013, 10:59:16 pm »
Salute for the CA!

Offline Mepic Von Shreck

  • Member
  • Salutes: 11
    • [Cake]
    • 4
    • View Profile
    • Shrek
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2013, 02:16:39 am »
I don't think this thread is really being constructive anymore. We can continue making the same arguments for and against until infinity and nothing will move.

This.

Perhaps this thread should be closed?

Offline Letus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 34
    • [SAC]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 33 
    • View Profile
Re: Ok, time to deal with less than pleasant players
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2013, 02:29:52 am »
They could just get rid of numbered levels and leave it at named titles like it was before....

I mean, does everybody know what number a artillerist is?