Guns Of Icarus Online
Off-Topic => The Pit => Topic started by: QKO on September 02, 2013, 07:22:56 pm
-
Yes, I'm gonna go dedicate a thread to this. I warned Wazulu I would do this, so here it is. This thread is about dealing with the influx of 'casual'... I mean 'bad' players; or bad players defining themselves as casual. Whatever you like. People that have played LoL, DotA, CS:GO, etc. know exactly what I'm talking about and can exactly tell where THIS community is headed. If you wish to ignore the issue or wouldn't want to read any more of my gibberish, press backspace now. If that didn't do anything, there's also the back button.
Previous weekend, I/crew I was on required moderator interference twice, last weekend once. While 2 measurements isn't enough to spot a trend, I am worried and I feel we need to deal with the issue. One of my friends has said we should stand our ground firmly right now. He also argued that while this might stunt growth a little, it will end up being beneficial for the current community and for the new players in the long run. And I am inclined to agree. If you let people in that have no interest in playing the actual game, you're inevitably going to drop standards. And while hardcore communities tend to be small, keep in mind that Quakeworld, Quake3 and Street Fighter 2 are still being played, if dicking around was the standard in those games, noone would've stayed that long.
I however do not believe we need to go full hostile on anyone that is new or 'just doesn't care'. New players as it is now are subject to abuse from players in the game. It's not because I like to yell at people, it's not because my friends like to yell at people, it's because they set us off and test our patience. And yes, I have met noobs that did really well in the first game, and I commend them on it, but others... lets just say they don't like me anymore; and I'm not a captain that is burning moonshine and complaining that his engines are broken.
Lets analyze the situation from their perspective. One of the reasons is: they just don't care about you or the games they are ruining by simply joining as captain and readying up immediately with a 3 mortar squid. These players are the ones that piss everyone off, because when you try to correct them, they just laugh at you or just ignore you. While in Guns of Icarus there is ways around them(if not many) and it often happens that two of these idiots join side by side in the same team, causing them to endure serious losses and leaving midgame... these players are going to be setting the standard if we don't eliminate these from the playing field.
The other reason is: the noob games are filled with retards(again, by the definition of the word). This is something that is undeniable and IS a problem. The lowlevel games are there to provide new players with an accessible learning curve, not a fuckbox(visualization is at your own discretion!). And while I have had the luck of finding teams that did care and where I could learn from, if the trend keeps up, others won't. For many potentially dedicated players this can be a MAJOR turn off.
It's in my opinion imperative that we discriminate between both types of players and treat them separately with separate standards. One of these groups can end up being respected, or even the best, players in our community if we let them. The other group... we could just as well toss them out in my honest opinion. But since they paid for a product which they should be able to exploit, we should probably give them a way to still enjoy the product, but not bother us or the group that can succeed. Might they want to become proper players, they can follow the basic path and get there eventually.
So these are the three groups I separate and feel should be distinguished inside the game: the 'I play for fun' players, the new players and the experienced players. Giving these groups their own playing field gives each group a lot less stress which would mean the community would even become more friendly as a whole. The next issue is of course the movement of players. Players should be able to eventually move to the experienced players pool. I'm going to leave out the bad players pool for a bit. The new players pool will have players that learn slowly and players that learn quickly. It would be unfair to hamper fast learners because of the slow learners and so it would mean that they should have access to the experienced player pool fairly quickly. This is something I of course touched on before, new players that decide to enter the experienced pool will have to be approved by the experienced pool. When level 3 or maybe 4 is hit on a class, the player can always enter the experienced player pool and the experienced players don't have much to say about it. Yet if they are lower, they are going to have to rely on commendations from the experienced players to keep them in the experienced pool. The current way commendations are given, it means that players will have to jump through some serious hoops not to stay in the experienced pool and as long as it stays like that, the system will work fine.
Now, the other pool. Since there are no automated ways to determine if someone is a complete moron. I suppose a report system is in order. Since most of the problematic players are in the noob pool, the noob pool will have to report these players and flag them as 'bad'/'casual' players. If too many reports are triggered, these players will get a message notifying them that they are put in the 'casual' pool and that their leveling has STOPPED(3 years of experience in the 'casual' pool doesn't count). These players then have either the choice to accept it and continue to dick around in that pool like he has unimpeded or appeal the system after which a CA, CA Mod or Muse developer has to come in and judge the player's intentions. While the appeal is going, the player still has access to the regular pools until the decision has been made. The appeal can be made once a certain period, so if a player decides he wants to try the 'hardcore' pools, he gets judged and permitted/denied at that point.
The above system will make pubs accessible to ALL groups of players. It will smoothen the innate friction that the groups have and will also mean that the bufferzone that was put in place to help new players, actually helps new players.
Of course I am open to any suggestions there are. But mind you, coming with solutions tried in DotA, LoL or anything of the sort will most likely be ignored. Telling players to form private groups is the exact opposite of what I wish to achieve and bringing that to the table will also be ignored. They didn't work there and most likely will not work here.
-
No.
-
If you are so dead set on not playing with who you consider a bad player, then simply avoid joining games with them in or simply only play with your friends, what you are suggesting here is just ludicrous in any degree.
-
If you have no alternatives, then just don't post here. Obviously this thread isn't meant for you.
-
I have an alternative to your problem of these less than pleasant players, it's called getting a hint that your ideas are so flawed you seem to be retarded. Or an even better one someone block this post and this guy because he doesn't understand the meaning of "freedom" or "free will" so he is going to be a moron about this and keep putting stupid threads on this forum.
-
Right, please do so, so this thread can be used for something more constructive than your bullshit.
-
I'm not interested in seeing our community shifting even slightly into the direction of Dota/HoN, attitude wise. I've seen you ingame a few times and I've read/heard how you treat (new) players. Frankly I don't even slightly wonder why you're incapeable of utilizing new players in your crew. If you treat people like shit, you should better not expect them to improve on your ship. Did you ever consider to drop your "ZOMG!!1!! WHY DID YOU LET THE HULL DIE!?!!1!" attitude, chill your tits and go over to elaborating the game mechanics to our new players?
-
Lol, i'm actually agree with Phoenix.
dat RAGE :D
i'm losing patience for new players pretty often, but QKO, srsly, there is a limit.
At this point, you become an official *noob nazi* of the GOI.
-
Hey everyone,
This is just a quick reminder to keep this discussion civil. You can have a conversation without insulting anyone, if you believe something is the fault of a player then state it in a nice manner, words like 'retard' are not needed, neither is insulting news players.
This chat is now being monitored by myself and likely other mods and action will be taken if it gets out of hand.
Cheers,
Qwerty
-
I'm not interested in seeing our community shifting even slightly into the direction of Dota/HoN, attitude wise. I've seen you ingame a few times and I've read/heard how you treat (new) players. Frankly I don't wonder even slightly why you're incapeable of utilizing new players in your crew. If you treat people like shit, you should better not expect them to improve on your ship. Did you ever consider to drop your "ZOMG!!1!! WHY DID YOU LET THE HULL DIE!?!!1!" attitude, chill your tits and go over to elaborating the game mechanics to our new players?
You almost make it sound as if you've been aboard my ship! Which you haven't, so you don't really know what you're talking about or what sets me off in the first place now do you? Should I be your crewmember and explicitly ignore you until you lose your patience? If you want to go all personal on me that's fine, but you can do that in PM, not here.
-
Qwerty I said it seems he is retarded as he has constantly posted this drivel on more than one thread its starting to seem that he either A) doesn't want any kind of disagreement and just wants everyone to shut up and do what he says or B) he has some kind of personality disorder that makes him not understand when someone tells him he is wrong which correct me if I'm wrong is a form of mental retardation.
This idea has been put forward by this guy so many times just look through his history you will see so he has got to be blocked because its getting ridiculous its not about making this game better its about him trying to have some kind of power which isn't there, none of his ideas have ever been validated and there have been many discussions where he has been proven wrong and never right so I'm not being some little immature child I am stating he must have some reason to not understand what has been clearly told to him several times. So you block him or he is going to get called more than a retard and not by me.
-
Fair enough phoenix I understand why you did it. It's just you've been banned before and you're a mate so I don't want to see you banned again. As to the problems with the poster and this post as a moderator I must remain impartial. Until a post in here brakes the code of conduct in a large enough way to get reported or require action I can not lock it.
-
You can if enough people complain about it right?
-
There's no danger in him stating his opinion. Call him wrong if you want (please, do), but overreacting and making personal attacks is not the way to get people to calm down and talk things out. It just makes them get defensive and even less likely to listen to reason.
QKO, we've had this conversation before- then, as now, I completely disagree with both your premise and conclusion.
Most people simply do not see the danger you are warning of. I certainly haven't. There is no contingent of players who are out to ruin everyone else's fun; there just isn't. You have a few bad apples here and there, but nothing on the scale necessitating the response you suggest. Most "bad" players are just people who are too new to know the game, or never had things explained properly to them and they picked up bad habits. Tune out the bad eggs and focus on helping those who need help. This is a solution in search of a problem.
-
If you're looking for player segregation, I suggest you get the people who agree with you and make a clan of your own, and not play with anyone else. There, problem solved.
-
Qwerty, at least, could u move it to feedback/suggestions?
-
I'm not interested in seeing our community shifting even slightly into the direction of Dota/HoN, attitude wise. I've seen you ingame a few times and I've read/heard how you treat (new) players. Frankly I don't wonder even slightly why you're incapeable of utilizing new players in your crew. If you treat people like shit, you should better not expect them to improve on your ship. Did you ever consider to drop your "ZOMG!!1!! WHY DID YOU LET THE HULL DIE!?!!1!" attitude, chill your tits and go over to elaborating the game mechanics to our new players?
You almost make it sound as if you've been aboard my ship! Which you haven't, so you don't really know what you're talking about or what sets me off in the first place now do you? Should I be your crewmember and explicitly ignore you until you lose your patience? If you want to go all personal on me that's fine, but you can do that in PM, not here.
I've played a match or two with you (not on your crew, but as a pilot of your opposing team). I've seen you complaining about your previous 'moronic crew' verbally prior to the match start. I've seen you complaining ingame about your present crew in match chat and I've heared you complaining about 'quitting noobs' verbally after the match. I don't even want to know what was going on in your crew (voice) chat.
And no - I definetly do not want to see you on my crew, ever.
-
I willingly accept him on my crew and I wish to see him preform in battle if he has a point that is worth making he should at least prove he isn't hypocritical.
-
Lol, i'm actually agree with Phoenix.
dat RAGE :D
i'm losing patience for new players pretty often, but QKO, srsly, there is a limit.
At this point, you become an official *noob nazi* of the GOI.
I do not hate noobs. If you are on my crew you will notice that I can be extremely patient with new players and that I will spend whatever time I can telling them everything I know about what they are doing at that moment. It is that other group which I explicitly separate from the actual new player that I deplore and that I prefer not to see in my games. While this might seem all rather extreme, I'm being very honest about the situation. I yell at people, I can yell very hard(strong voice, strong posture), but I only do so if I'm under the distinct perception that they are purposely screwing me(admittedly, I get that perception very fast, though I also apologize if I find out I'm wrong on the matter).
Qwerty I said it seems he is retarded as he has constantly posted this drivel on more than one thread its starting to seem that he either A) doesn't want any kind of disagreement and just wants everyone to shut up and do what he says or B) he has some kind of personality disorder that makes him not understand when someone tells him he is wrong which correct me if I'm wrong is a form of mental retardation.
This idea has been put forward by this guy so many times just look through his history you will see so he has got to be blocked because its getting ridiculous its not about making this game better its about him trying to have some kind of power which isn't there, none of his ideas have ever been validated and there have been many discussions where he has been proven wrong and never right so I'm not being some little immature child I am stating he must have some reason to not understand what has been clearly told to him several times. So you block him or he is going to get called more than a retard and not by me.
No, see, here is where the problem starts, yes it is the same story but I'm now here starting a dedicated thread where my own idea can get explored or alternatives can be offered. You're deciding to do neither of the two.
Furthermore, I've had support on nearly all my suggestions in the feedback thread and even some balance changes/weapons are planned for the game conform to what I entered that thread with. You are having a very lopsided view about me which I feel is unjustified. If you're looking for a war or something, just go look somewhere else, I don't have the time, nor the energy to deal with you.
You can if enough people complain about it right?
Now this would be nazism
-
Why can't I be experienced AND play 'just for fun'?
Just because I don't fly gat/mortar builds and play to win 100% doesn't mean I don't respect the game.
The way that me and my friends play (using lots of fire, for all of you new to the Forum) would probably get a lot of us 'reported.'
We already do have 'experienced' lobbies. They're even password protected. If you want in, there's one every Sunday at minimum.
One of the great joys (to me) of this game is not only its uniqueness (airship combat! :D) but also it's community. It's hopping into some random lobby, saying hello to everyone, getting a few 'hi's back and having idle conversation until the lobby fills up.
Sure, you get some people who just respond with a swift 'shut up,' but people often respond to that with a 'that's not cool' or 'Jesus, what's your problem?'
Maybe I just catch the lucky end of the 'Lobby Lottery,' if you will, but this is one of the best damn general communities I've ever encountered.
That's not to say I don't want to preserve it.
I think the way to go about that is to teach those who will listen and scold those who don't.
Those who try to play this game independently are quickly bored with it.
I may be misunderstanding you completely. If I am please correct me.
-
You can if enough people complain about it right?
Now this would be nazism
[/quote]
Actually its called democracy its what drives a lot of things like freedom, equality, all the things that make something good.
What you don't seem to understand is you posted a thread to come up with ways to make alternatives for your ideas, however you fail to understand we don't need your idea or alternatives for it, why? because your ideas are similar to ones that ruin almost every other game culture out there that are using the same basis and seems though we already have several things in place that makes this game and its community so enjoyable you ideas are just silly they would never be put through i'm not trying to start a war I am merely saying your ideas just shouldn't be here because they don't work and we don't need them to work when we already have a better system.
-
I willingly accept him on my crew and I wish to see him preform in battle if he has a point that is worth making he should at least prove he isn't hypocritical.
As you wish.
Why can't I be experienced AND play 'just for fun'?
Just because I don't fly gat/mortar builds and play to win 100% doesn't mean I don't respect the game.
The way that me and my friends play (using lots of fire, for all of you new to the Forum) would probably get a lot of us 'reported.'
We already do have 'experienced' lobbies. They're even password protected. If you want in, there's one every Sunday at minimum.
One of the great joys (to me) of this game is not only its uniqueness (airship combat! :D) but also it's community. It's hopping into some random lobby, saying hello to everyone, getting a few 'hi's back and having idle conversation until the lobby fills up.
Sure, you get some people who just respond with a swift 'shut up,' but people often respond to that with a 'that's not cool' or 'Jesus, what's your problem?'
Maybe I just catch the lucky end of the 'Lobby Lottery,' if you will, but this is one of the best damn general communities I've ever encountered.
That's not to say I don't want to preserve it.
I think the way to go about that is to teach those who will listen and scold those who don't.
Those who try to play this game independently are quickly bored with it.
I may be misunderstanding you completely. If I am please correct me.
I do not know how many ways I have to pinpoint the type of player I'm on about. Everyone does weird builds. Your clanleader has one of the most idiotic builds around and he's making it work pretty damn well. I'm not here about rules on how you're supposed to win. I'm here about players that join the game, say nothing, immediately ready with a full mortar ship. Then when in game you try to reach them they ignore you. Or how about the player that repairs a near depleted hull armor with a spanner rather than a mallet? And uses the mallet to restore a near full health hull armor? Of course, he continues doing this after 3 crew members explicitly told him to knock that off. Then there's the second pilot syndrome, or the second gunner syndrome. I even have the politeness to inform my opposing crew that their ship is going to fail during the upcoming game and they ignore me or tell me to shut the fuck up; of course they die in the game and guess what their crew has to go through?
You have seen me in game, you see me flying around with a carronade+flamethrower pyramidion, your clan has had me onboard their ships several times and had me play along just fine. You should know that I'm not targeting the way some people wish to approach this game in the context of the game. I'm trying to make clear that I'm targeting players that do not care about the game one damn bit; and if the game ends up completely ruined because of them they still don't care about it. They are the players you give advice and they tell you to stfu or use other verbal means to insult you. That is who I'm after.
And yes, right now this is one of the best gaming communities out there. That is correct and I agree with that. What is happening however, which is not only seen by me, but quite a few people around me is that CA intervention is becoming much more common now due to the friction between the types of players. And the suggestion I mention in OP is expressly designed to reduce or completely avoid that friction.
-
Actually its called democracy its what drives a lot of things like freedom, equality, all the things that make something good.
What you don't seem to understand is you posted a thread to come up with ways to make alternatives for your ideas, however you fail to understand we don't need your idea or alternatives for it, why? because your ideas are similar to ones that ruin almost every other game culture out there that are using the same basis and seems though we already have several things in place that makes this game and its community so enjoyable you ideas are just silly they would never be put through i'm not trying to start a war I am merely saying your ideas just shouldn't be here because they don't work and we don't need them to work when we already have a better system.
Mob justice does not apply to censorship.
The way I proposed this is an extension on what Alliance of Variant Arms (maintained by aeria games) is doing with their beginner pool. The beginner pool is even a means to attract new players because the experience gain there is higher. What I simply did was add one more pool in there that is explicitly designed for those who don't fit in either of the regular pools. This is to reduce friction. This means less interventions from CA and less yelling from me(which should be a good thing!) and other players. The AVA approach is successful. Players there, just like I propose right here, can skip the beginner pool if they so desire and immediately join up with the experienced players, they do so however at the experienced players consent. If the consent is withdrawn, which is usually because the player isn't qualified, the player is told to go to the beginner pool or kicked immediately in that game. Since Muse is against kicking and since the commendation system is used as liberal as it is now, new players wishing to enter the experienced player pool should have no real problem skipping the beginner pool if they so desire. That is the key idea of my (genius) plan.
The 'casual' pool can be compared to the low priority pool in DotA2, which up to an extend did work. However, DotA2's major flaw is the lack of manual intervention. I suspect that a lot of 'casual' players wouldn't really care about what pool they ended up in and won't bother to appeal them being put there. And for that an automated system would succeed in segregating properly. There's cases however of players that never ever should end up in such a pool and for them the appeal system is in place. Again, while segregating, I want to keep as much free movement as possible, but not to the point where friction occurs.
-
...they do so however at the experienced players consent.
This is a big issue. Letting players, no matter how "experienced" essentially vet other players turns this whole thing into a popularity contest. In a game centered on building trust and camaraderie with your fellow players, "booting" people because you don't like how they do things is the worst thing you can do. We should be encouraging players to open up and be friendly and cooperative, not handing down summary judgement.
-
Dude, literally all you do is post about how this game is going to turn into DOTA2 or LoL, and then come up with asinine plans of how to "combat it" to which, when, presented with arguments against it, you basically stick your fingers in your ears and sing "lalala can'thearyou".
No one agrees with your doomsday scenarios, and everything you've suggested either gets shot down quickly or is against Muse's philosophy, so please... just stop.
-
The problem presented by the OP is one easily solved.
Make friends, play with them, enjoy the game
Though we all play in pubs I know personally this is how I tend to have the most fun in GOI.
-
I just want to say that certain experienced/high level players can be just as bad to play with.. when doing things that are purposely detrimental to everyone else in the game.
-
I just want to say that certain experienced/high level players can be just as bad to play with.. when doing things that are purposely detrimental to everyone else in the game.
The only thing that legitimately bothers me is full-Phobos Mine Launcher builds. I just...hate mines. I guess if I got on a ship that actually knew what it was doing with them, but most don't. I can understand wanting to mess around and have fun- everybody gets bored now and then- but flying around in a Squid for 30 minutes and not hitting anything is more my definition of "boring." ;P
Anytime that happens I try to tough it out, then abandon the lobby as soon as the match is over.
-
as a cake, I am a frequent user of the 4 mine 1 harpoon mobula. This build is incredibly satisfying, far from boring, and shockingly effective (actually won more than a few matches)
-
as a cake, I am a frequent user of the 4 mine 1 harpoon mobula. This build is incredibly satisfying, far from boring, and shockingly effective (actually won more than a few matches)
Oh, I'm sure. But I've been in too many matches with a mine-layer Squid whose crew are "just messing around, man" and end up flying aimlessly at the edge of battlefields, dropping mines far away from any actual enemy ship. You sound like you actually know what you're doing; running all/mostly mines is fine if it's your strategy, but kinda lame when it's just for a lark.
-
have you ever been on spudnick's ship the "mines of mortar"? its a junker with a mine mortar broadside. The mines provide both piercing damage and a defense against the inevitably charging pyra.
-
but basically YES is do see your point. people use "im just messing around man" as an escape route whenever they start to lose a fight
-
I'll just give my two cents on this. I had the pleasure to be with you on one or two games with some of these non pleasant players. We were on a metamidion and I was on main. There was one other engineer with a buffer and he kept coming down buffing the hull instead of staying in the front. I remember you swearing and shouting at him for being a retard of not staying with the gun. I had a real blast on your rage since I first thought you weren't srs. but you were srs. and that's sad...
I don't think you realise you make this seem like it's such a big deal. It's like you have just found the internet and you're unsure of it's many users. This is not the first game to experience such "non pleasant players". There are even worse cases in Strategy games where you'd depend even more on a teammate and all he does is goove around. However that's a minority on almost every game. You might have heard it already but chill the fuck down. If by now you haven't stacked up a friends list you certainly are not taking the opportunity of playing the game with what it offers. Teaming up with friends is what this game is basically is all about, not strafing around aimlessly. After you played some time it's optional to find games alone. But be aware that not everybody is able to understand/hear or simply listens to you. Because if you start acting like a prick you're simply shout at a wall.
I played over a thousand matches and some guys in this thread even more yet somehow they seem to get along just fine whetever it is because they choose to play with guys they know or simply they're not as easy to get off as you seem to be.
I call upon the ultimate argument here and say "it's only a game" -everybody
If you don't act like a prick on a ship that's one less of the minority of bad players.
-
The problem presented by the OP is one easily solved.
Make friends, play with them, enjoy the game
Though we all play in pubs I know personally this is how I tend to have the most fun in GOI.
Which is why we barely see you in pubs. And no, duck games are not pubs, even if you forget the password sometimes...
I'll just give my two cents on this. I had the pleasure to be with you on one or two games with some of these non pleasant players. We were on a metamidion and I was on main. There was one other engineer with a buffer and he kept coming down buffing the hull instead of staying in the front. I remember you swearing and shouting at him for being a retard of not staying with the gun. I had a real blast on your rage since I first thought you weren't srs. but you were srs. and that's sad...
I'm not likely to call players I'm yelling at retards. Besides, that was nothing compared to yesterday. Xerx can confirm I felt like I was going to die. Though it was my mistake to put my crew in a Galleon I suppose. And you might hate my behavior to these players. But you have to agree that what I ask of people is reasonable. I am the player running loadouts that compensates for my crew's inabilities and plays to their strengths. I do explain to people how I want thinks done and given time I even explain why I make the decisions I make. Yes, you've had to pleasure of seeing me blow up against someone who didn't listen, yet you also should've noticed that I didn't attack you on anything in that scenario.
I don't think you realise you make this seem like it's such a big deal. It's like you have just found the internet and you're unsure of it's many users. This is not the first game to experience such "non pleasant players". There are even worse cases in Strategy games where you'd depend even more on a teammate and all he does is goove around. However that's a minority on almost every game. You might have heard it already but chill the fuck down. If by now you haven't stacked up a friends list you certainly are not taking the opportunity of playing the game with what it offers. Teaming up with friends is what this game is basically is all about, not strafing around aimlessly. After you played some time it's optional to find games alone. But be aware that not everybody is able to understand/hear or simply listens to you. Because if you start acting like a prick you're simply shout at a wall.
I played over a thousand matches and some guys in this thread even more yet somehow they seem to get along just fine whetever it is because they choose to play with guys they know or simply they're not as easy to get off as you seem to be.
This is exactly the thing I wish to prevent. I'm not saying you shouldn't have friends or shouldn't be playing with friends. But any player should have access to any pub with a fairly set standard. If you restrict yourself to a friendslist you will get inhousing and inhousing is one of the worst forms of elitism there is. In this game it's still possible to go to a public game and have fun. But the occurrences of those kind of pubs is diminishing.
I call upon the ultimate argument here and say "it's only a game" -everybody
If you don't act like a prick on a ship that's one less of the minority of bad players.
Yes, this argument is essentially the same as playing basketball, tossing the ball to your opponents and then going "it's only a game bro!". It's a teamgame, it should be fair to expect some sort of standard.
Now if you want to prevent Muse implementing this system because it's the only suggestion made up until the point shit hits the fan, I really recommend you stop targeting me specifically and come up with actual alternatives.
-
I have an alternative to your problem of these less than pleasant players, it's called getting a hint that your ideas are so flawed you seem to be retarded. Or an even better one someone block this post and this guy because he doesn't understand the meaning of "freedom" or "free will" so he is going to be a moron about this and keep putting stupid threads on this forum.
Actually have him blocked in game. Can't remember the reason why but I guess maybe you found it.
Ahh my glorious block list...someday to be featured as a mini game of it's own in GOIO! :D
-
The game has a feature called crew formation, where you can assemble your own crew, made up of people whom you invited. ;) Many people use this function on a daily basis because they don't always want to play with strangers (this is not elitism, some folks just simply happened to find friends in this game, which is actually quite cool, and want to play with them). Why not use this instead of introducing any restrictions/experienced vs. new player zones, whatever? If you do not like playing with strangers (either because you dont trust their abilities or because you just wanna play with people you know), simply invite folks that you like playing with, and try to make the gaming experience fun enough for them so that they would actually join that crew formation lobby and stay for several matches. You can still join public matches with that crew, get to know new folks while playing (match chat, sweathearts!!!) and even invite new people into the crew later on so that you can gather more friends. That function is not only for clans or for competitive team organizations, but for anyone who wants to play with certain people he/she knows or wants to play with.
-
Andika: would I have met you? Or Spud? Or Borg? If I were to confine myself to just my friendslist? Even if you form a crew, how are you going to play if you can't trust the other crew on your team? Just join with a team of 8/12/16? Think rationally here for a second. At some point the line into the open grounds has to be crossed, unless you inhouse. And when public domain is accessible, the point of confining yourself to just your friends or trying to avoid new players becomes much more moot.
Furthermore, I think the current low level situation is a disservice to a lot of new players. I have quite a bit of piloting time because in the newbie games noone piloted. People tend to just stand there in those games and do nothing productive quite frankly. That, no matter how you want me to put it or phrase it has to be dealt with in an agreeable manner.
-
I can't even anymore :v
-
Andika: would I have met you? Or Spud? Or Borg? If I were to confine myself to just my friendslist? Even if you form a crew, how are you going to play if you can't trust the other crew on your team?
Actually, whenever I go online, I tend to group up with my fellow Cakes (we often fill up whole ships and you can rarely see me in a non-cake lobby when other Cakes are online) and yet my friendlist gets longer day by day...and it isn't just filling up with Cakes, but with anyone whom I had a great time with. Either because we meet in the lobby only (match chat, folks, I'm serious!), or because they joined a half-Cake or 3-Cake-member ship, or because they were our funny, worthy, coolest ever enemies.
Your problem seems to be that you do not enjoy the game with certain types of players (players with certain playing styles, I would say). The solution is to try to find players with whom you do enjoy the game. As many of them as possible. It doesn't mean you will end up with the same 3 people all the time. It means that after a while you'll have lots of "3 people"s in your friendlist with whom you can play. Or even whole teams, for that matter. And I'm not saying that your friend group should be closed to new players. Sure, get to know folks! Teach new people about the game and let them know about the tricks that are not mentioned in the tutorial or the handbook. Not everyone will listen, you are right about that, but most people do want to learn the game and have fun with it.
Also, I feel that your problem with "unpleasant players" is one that many people in-game are already managing quite well by communicating with folks, and by finding people whose playing style fits them, without closing out anyone who is new to their circles or to the entire game.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yV7nK8lF8Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yV7nK8lF8Q)
-
I spend a lot of time with complete strangers on this game. There have been many times where my patience just isn't up to it. I can recall five different incidents this weekend where I lost my temper at a player who wasn't keeping up with my expectations. I tend to make the assumption that if a person did not carry out my order by the second time I repeat it, they are making the conscious choice to disrupt the game for myself and the other people on the ship.
However the best way to deal with bad players is by yelling at them. Either they become good players, quit the game, or lurk around to troll. Most of the time they become good players, so I stop yelling at them and start complimenting them. Some times they leave the server and I never see them again, so they are no longer my problem. Very rarely they will stick around inspite of all the verbal abuse I heap upon them. At this point I finish the game, block the name, and let the rest of the lobby know I am leaving because of <troll player name> so they can block the name too.
-
I am, sadly, pretty lax when someone on my ship doesn't listen to me. I don't know if they can't hear me, think I'm talking to someone else, think that whatever they're doing is better than my orders, or are really trolling. Usually, I can figure out a way to make up for their incompetence, but if they really are trolling, I'll troll them back. It's not hard to turn the ship so that they can't shoot the gun they want to shoot, or going to a hiding spot and having a deck party while I bad mouth them in a playful, not-serious way or remain completely silent (works incredibly well) . They eventually get bored when they see that they're unable to make me mad, so they'll either leave mid-match, or they'll leave the next match when I continue to not fly the ship.
This hasn't happened often, and when it does, the enemy and allied captains are sympathetic enough to deal with my issues.
Other than putting up with it or trolling back, there currently is nothing we, as players, can do. I agree that we should have some way of getting rid of these players, but such a large scale segregation would cause more harm than good. I still think the best way to deal with this is giving power to the players. MUSE says we can't kick, so we need some other option that could be used in-game to dissuade players from playing independently and encourage teamwork. Kicking a player off of the guns, maybe a button that could mute them for the entire ship, or even a way to replace them with an AI, forcing them to watch out something.
I figure a Captain abusing a 'kick' function or similar power would be a metaphorical death wish. There are two other witnesses on a ship that could report a captain for abusing his power.
-
No.
Was going to post this myself, but I see you've done the job. Have a salute.
-
Right, I feel, as a newish player, I should have a little say.
When I first came onto GOI, I played a bit with people I know in real life, as we could communicate well with each other and all know when to take things seriously. This resulted in some pretty good wins in beginner matches. When they went offline for the most part, I ended up joining a random crew with one of the guys remaining (engi). Of course, it was a pyra (can't remember the build but it was amazingly good fun) and we ended up chatting a fair bit and having a great time, despite many of the other beginner ships being pretty dreadful (no lies here). Because of them being so bad, we decided to go to a non-beginner DM, being 1-1-1 for the most part. In those matches we had 5 perfect wins, with us taking quite a few kills despite being so new. And we weren't being overly serious about it. If people messed up (we had some hilarious hwacha disasters) we'd just laugh it off and joke, before getting back to semi-seriousness. This was great fun and actually worked really effectively.
However, since it could be arguably said to be 'casual' in the way we played, despite the fact we were pretty damn successful - following this I've ran quite a few DMs with the pilot, and have formed a pretty decent crew of people through random matches - your idea would result in us not being able to join any 'experienced' games. I think it's ridiculously elitist to think that everyone who doesn't take GOI seriously to the point of shouting at people (I've come across a few myself, though fortunately haven't been shouted at directly) shouldn't be 'in with the cool kids', so to speak.
It was only through joining the non-beginner matches and having a laugh with more experienced players that I really developed my own skill and ended up racking up some really good, fun games... And wins.
So it's just ridiculous that you would act so elitist when, really, it's the non-beginner matches that push beginners, like me, to become more experienced in GOI.
TL;DR The original post is utter elitist rubbish that will do nothing to help GOI.
-
Right, I feel, as a newish player, I should have a little say.
When I first came onto GOI, I played a bit with people I know in real life, as we could communicate well with each other and all know when to take things seriously. This resulted in some pretty good wins in beginner matches. When they went offline for the most part, I ended up joining a random crew with one of the guys remaining (engi). Of course, it was a pyra (can't remember the build but it was amazingly good fun) and we ended up chatting a fair bit and having a great time, despite many of the other beginner ships being pretty dreadful (no lies here). Because of them being so bad, we decided to go to a non-beginner DM, being 1-1-1 for the most part. In those matches we had 5 perfect wins, with us taking quite a few kills despite being so new. And we weren't being overly serious about it. If people messed up (we had some hilarious hwacha disasters) we'd just laugh it off and joke, before getting back to semi-seriousness. This was great fun and actually worked really effectively.
However, since it could be arguably said to be 'casual' in the way we played, despite the fact we were pretty damn successful - following this I've ran quite a few DMs with the pilot, and have formed a pretty decent crew of people through random matches - your idea would result in us not being able to join any 'experienced' games. I think it's ridiculously elitist to think that everyone who doesn't take GOI seriously to the point of shouting at people (I've come across a few myself, though fortunately haven't been shouted at directly) shouldn't be 'in with the cool kids', so to speak.
It was only through joining the non-beginner matches and having a laugh with more experienced players that I really developed my own skill and ended up racking up some really good, fun games... And wins.
So it's just ridiculous that you would act so elitist when, really, it's the non-beginner matches that push beginners, like me, to become more experienced in GOI.
TL;DR The original post is utter elitist rubbish that will do nothing to help GOI.
You sir get a cookie and a salute from me :) Pretty much sums up what a lot of us are trying to get across.
-
Right, I feel, as a newish player, I should have a little say.
When I first came onto GOI, I played a bit with people I know in real life, as we could communicate well with each other and all know when to take things seriously. This resulted in some pretty good wins in beginner matches. When they went offline for the most part, I ended up joining a random crew with one of the guys remaining (engi). Of course, it was a pyra (can't remember the build but it was amazingly good fun) and we ended up chatting a fair bit and having a great time, despite many of the other beginner ships being pretty dreadful (no lies here). Because of them being so bad, we decided to go to a non-beginner DM, being 1-1-1 for the most part. In those matches we had 5 perfect wins, with us taking quite a few kills despite being so new. And we weren't being overly serious about it. If people messed up (we had some hilarious hwacha disasters) we'd just laugh it off and joke, before getting back to semi-seriousness. This was great fun and actually worked really effectively.
However, since it could be arguably said to be 'casual' in the way we played, despite the fact we were pretty damn successful - following this I've ran quite a few DMs with the pilot, and have formed a pretty decent crew of people through random matches - your idea would result in us not being able to join any 'experienced' games. I think it's ridiculously elitist to think that everyone who doesn't take GOI seriously to the point of shouting at people (I've come across a few myself, though fortunately haven't been shouted at directly) shouldn't be 'in with the cool kids', so to speak.
It was only through joining the non-beginner matches and having a laugh with more experienced players that I really developed my own skill and ended up racking up some really good, fun games... And wins.
So it's just ridiculous that you would act so elitist when, really, it's the non-beginner matches that push beginners, like me, to become more experienced in GOI.
TL;DR The original post is utter elitist rubbish that will do nothing to help GOI.
Ok, at least you read half of the OP post, but you missed the part where I tried to explain freedom of movement. Now let me explain it again, initially 1-1-1 players have access to both the beginner pool and the experienced pool. The only way access to the experienced pool can be revoked is when the 1 1 1 does not earn enough commendations(the amount required is up for grabs). So lets say you need to gain 10 in 10 matches. That means at least one player each match would have to give you a commendation for you to stay. Considering the liberal way these are used now, you would probably get 6 every match, so in 2 matches the system would determine you can stay in the experienced player pool. And because this access can be tested at any time, your example would actually have gone through.
I also gave Spud's ship as an example that has a rather casual ring to it. I just flew a spire with a heavy carronade + mortar (and won!) and I have some other silly ships in the line. It's not really about how you approach the game, as long as you play the game with the attempt to win I'm pretty much fine with things.
Also, note that I referred to these players as 'casual' as in "I play for fun" when you ask them why they are doing something that is incredibly stupid. I think it's safe to assume that you as a clanmember are willing to take responsibility for your actions. Which means you are not afraid to admit you were wrong or that something you tried failed you. The 'casual' crowd has none of these virtues, they even give you the finger when you explain to them why 4 mortars on a Pyramidion simply is not effective. Or when you ask them to stop repairing a near downed hull armor with a spanner rather than a mallet they simply ignore you and keep doing it. That is once more that fancy little group I'm targeting.
And you might consider me some elitist jerk, but a 1-1-1 just made it on my friendslist, so there >:P
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUF9BPOXfcE
-
This thread will get locked if we keep on seeing posts that border on personal attacks. If you don't like the suggestion, then argue about it. If you don't like the player, keep that to yourself.
-
Right, I feel, as a newish player, I should have a little say.
When I first came onto GOI, I played a bit with people I know in real life, as we could communicate well with each other and all know when to take things seriously. This resulted in some pretty good wins in beginner matches. When they went offline for the most part, I ended up joining a random crew with one of the guys remaining (engi). Of course, it was a pyra (can't remember the build but it was amazingly good fun) and we ended up chatting a fair bit and having a great time, despite many of the other beginner ships being pretty dreadful (no lies here). Because of them being so bad, we decided to go to a non-beginner DM, being 1-1-1 for the most part. In those matches we had 5 perfect wins, with us taking quite a few kills despite being so new. And we weren't being overly serious about it. If people messed up (we had some hilarious hwacha disasters) we'd just laugh it off and joke, before getting back to semi-seriousness. This was great fun and actually worked really effectively.
However, since it could be arguably said to be 'casual' in the way we played, despite the fact we were pretty damn successful - following this I've ran quite a few DMs with the pilot, and have formed a pretty decent crew of people through random matches - your idea would result in us not being able to join any 'experienced' games. I think it's ridiculously elitist to think that everyone who doesn't take GOI seriously to the point of shouting at people (I've come across a few myself, though fortunately haven't been shouted at directly) shouldn't be 'in with the cool kids', so to speak.
It was only through joining the non-beginner matches and having a laugh with more experienced players that I really developed my own skill and ended up racking up some really good, fun games... And wins.
So it's just ridiculous that you would act so elitist when, really, it's the non-beginner matches that push beginners, like me, to become more experienced in GOI.
TL;DR The original post is utter elitist rubbish that will do nothing to help GOI.
Ok, at least you read half of the OP post, but you missed the part where I tried to explain freedom of movement. Now let me explain it again, initially 1-1-1 players have access to both the beginner pool and the experienced pool. The only way access to the experienced pool can be revoked is when the 1 1 1 does not earn enough commendations(the amount required is up for grabs). So lets say you need to gain 10 in 10 matches. That means at least one player each match would have to give you a commendation for you to stay. Considering the liberal way these are used now, you would probably get 6 every match, so in 2 matches the system would determine you can stay in the experienced player pool. And because this access can be tested at any time, your example would actually have gone through.
I also gave Spud's ship as an example that has a rather casual ring to it. I just flew a spire with a heavy carronade + mortar (and won!) and I have some other silly ships in the line. It's not really about how you approach the game, as long as you play the game with the attempt to win I'm pretty much fine with things.
Also, note that I referred to these players as 'casual' as in "I play for fun" when you ask them why they are doing something that is incredibly stupid. I think it's safe to assume that you as a clanmember are willing to take responsibility for your actions. Which means you are not afraid to admit you were wrong or that something you tried failed you. The 'casual' crowd has none of these virtues, they even give you the finger when you explain to them why 4 mortars on a Pyramidion simply is not effective. Or when you ask them to stop repairing a near downed hull armor with a spanner rather than a mallet they simply ignore you and keep doing it. That is once more that fancy little group I'm targeting.
And you might consider me some elitist jerk, but a 1-1-1 just made it on my friendslist, so there >:P
Ah, ok. That's cleared up a fair bit I think.
Still, I don't entirely agree, but your points are taken!
-
i saw the thread title and expected to agree with the OP, but after reading the thread i find that i disagree completely.
to put it simply your proposed system of getting rid of dicks relies on people not being dicks. how many "bad players" will make it past this system because most people just give out commendations after a match no matter what, how many "good players" will have their access to experienced lobby's revoked?
this idea is awful and would only destroy this games already small player base.
-
I think there are too many assumptions made about low level players here. I've seen high levels be terrible people and low levels be the nicest folks I've met.
It also stops reformation. I like trying to make problem players into good players. Most of the time it doesn't work, but I think both myself and they deserve the opportunity.
Plus tiering is found in so many games, and it almost always makes me feel sad and second class (in general I am not good a video games). I like that this one is so open and mobile. It makes it feel very authentic to me. A high level player can take a risk on a low level or loose cannon player. I just like other people in general and the openness the current system promotes.
And some people have fun with 4 mortars on a Pyra. Once they get hammered into the ground they might start to listen. If they don't, well, something right is happening. If they simply don't listen, I'll find another ship or start my own game.
-
If they simply don't listen, I'll find another ship or start my own game.
I think it really does just come down to that.
New player that wants to learn? Great, you could teach them and feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
New player that's a dickhead? *shrugs* eh, there's always other lobbies. And they probably won't stay in GoIO for very long anyway.
It really is that simple. We don't need any fancy systems to enforce the community other than the innate choices of the players themselves.
-
(http://otakumeme.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Sword-Art-Online-Macro-003.jpg)
-
Can't argue with that.
-
I'm with Gilder here, And to bring up a point Andika made earlier, I too tend to play with my fellow Cakes nigh on always, does that mean I'm in housing? Sure I am, however I play with people I enjoy playing with, and my friends list keeps growing, and like Andika said, not all of them are cakes. I don't have to pull the, "I've been here long enough to have seen this kind of attitude before." Card out do I?
-
I'm with Gilder here, And to bring up a point Andika made earlier, I too tend to play with my fellow Cakes nigh on always, does that mean I'm in housing? Sure I am, however I play with people I enjoy playing with, and my friends list keeps growing, and like Andika said, not all of them are cakes. I don't have to pull the, "I've been here long enough to have seen this kind of attitude before." Card out do I?
Inhousing is a group isolating themselves from the mass to play games. If you play games with only people you know, you are basically inhousing. Basically, the problem currently is that people are losing the drive to just pub and start to stack/inhouse instead (me included).
-
i havent read any of the other responses so i am sure it has already been said
but isnt QKO hating to play with bad players a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
-
i havent read any of the other responses so i am sure it has already been said
but isnt QKO hating to play with bad players a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
It wasn't me firing that mortar if that's what you're referring to.
-
No offense, but can we just let this thread die? I don't think there's anything more that needs to be said.
-
Again, another one of those round about threads in which people will keep repeating the same argument over and over again, enough is enough and this thread really has no purpose.
-
No, this thread has a purpose, you just seem to excel at ignoring it.
-
No, this thread has a purpose, you just seem to excel at ignoring it.
It does, it's served as the you make a silly suggestion and everyone says no, stop that thread.
-
In a nutshell you're proposing that lower level players will need enough commendations from higher level users to play with the "decorated veterans" of GoI.
I don't feel the commendation system would be reliable to judge a new player. Giving someone a commendation at the end of a match has become the new 'gg' in GoI. This applies for veteran players as much as for beginners.
Conversely, a few mean spirited players could keep out deserving new players, at least in the short term. But that may be enough for a few players to get fed up and drop GoI entirely. Which leads to my next point, I'm afraid this system would encourage elitism.
Sure, in theory Muse could implement all sorts of reporting systems to go after players who give out commendations to everyone or those who conspire against new players. You also mention investigating players and processing 'appeals'. To me that just adds too much complexity to the game. And as far as Muse is concerned they probably already have enough on their plate, they don't want to be playing hall monitor.
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.
Personally, I love the anarchic and open nature of this game. It really fits into the post-apocalyptic "Wild West" theme of Guns of Icarus. :)
-
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.
....just had the visuals of people trying to throw down their guns, jumping at each other to fist-fight, but pancaking into the ground go through my head when I read that....
-
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.
....just had the visuals of people trying to throw down their guns, jumping at each other to fist-fight, but pancaking into the ground go through my head when I read that....
Aim for the bushes...
-
It does, it's served as the you make a silly suggestion and everyone says no, stop that thread.
No the point of this thread was to deal with the root cause of certain glaring issues. Rather than having people cry about stacking, planning an inhouse because the pubs are so shitty(https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2389.0.html) or having them cry about rude players(https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2392.0.html). That was the root cause for this thread because, just like I mentioned it was going to happen; it now has happened.
And instead of trying to disprove my initial statement, which was that there are some very annoying players in the game and that they could pose a problem, you instead decided to try to bash me. Because lets face it, you can't really disprove that statement, nor do you want to admit that this is in fact happening. Even if you think my plan sucks, you could at least try to come up with some alternatives that would prevent the need for inhouses or other elitist crap that will in fact disillusion newer players in ways unimaginable.
And now again, the newbie pool is a complete pile of shit, newbies are now diverting to the regular pool to avoid this pile of shit. The newbies are, more often than not, not experienced enough to participate in the regular pool which means they take losses and take shit from players that wish to get them up to speed faster than that they can handle. And what you have now, as quoted earlier are people wishing to inhouse to avoid these newer players.
By all means, think of me what you will, I do not care one tiny little bit. But, I do request you keep out of this thread with your blatantly provocative and stupid remarks.
-
In a nutshell you're proposing that lower level players will need enough commendations from higher level users to play with the "decorated veterans" of GoI.
You could name them that, or just "regulars"; there's 15 levels in this game, having a minimum requirement of 3 to enter a normal is relatively speaking nothing.
I don't feel the commendation system would be reliable to judge a new player. Giving someone a commendation at the end of a match has become the new 'gg' in GoI. This applies for veteran players as much as for beginners.
So commendations would not be given when such a player doesn't even deserve a gg, this is something that is good. If a player is working to keep up with the current playerbase and gets up to speed in the desired pace, they should have access to the regular pool. The idea is not designed to separate good players from bad players. It's to control the flow of newer players into the regular pool.
Conversely, a few mean spirited players could keep out deserving new players, at least in the short term. But that may be enough for a few players to get fed up and drop GoI entirely. Which leads to my next point, I'm afraid this system would encourage elitism.
Yes, again, the short term. They can be kept in the newbie pool for a little while longer before becoming regulars by automation. Secondly, the newbie pool needs some serious work as it currently puts in a whole lot of people that cannot even walk with people who wish to try to understand the game and wish to get better at it. That is what the second part of the plan was for. If players do not care about learning and playing the game proper, they can do so outside the confines of the regular and newbie pool. Alternatively, we can go to a newbie server and yell at these people until they stop playing.
Sure, in theory Muse could implement all sorts of reporting systems to go after players who give out commendations to everyone or those who conspire against new players. You also mention investigating players and processing 'appeals'. To me that just adds too much complexity to the game. And as far as Muse is concerned they probably already have enough on their plate, they don't want to be playing hall monitor.
Partially correct, yes it adds complexity for the Muse system should the majority of players decide to appeal the automated decision. But at least it gives Muse grounds to put people in or take people from that pool. That bit of monitoring can make a huge difference. Aside from that, I'm slightly hoping that such a pool will also make the players inside it realize that not playing together will not get anyone anywhere.
I'd approach GoI a bit like hockey: Call the penalties but let the players police themselves.
I'd be in favor of a kick system as well, but Muse said "HELL NO!! NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!" so this ends up being the next best thing.
Personally, I love the anarchic and open nature of this game. It really fits into the post-apocalyptic "Wild West" theme of Guns of Icarus. :)
It used to work for lots of games, even dota. But when the trolls hit, they just hit hard.
-
So commendations would not be given when such a player doesn't even deserve a gg, this is something that is good.
I think you misunderstood my meaning. Commendations are often given out by default. I've joined matches a few seconds before the end and I was receiving commendations from new and experienced players alike...yet I hadn't done anything. Whereas you see commendations and 'gg' as an evaluation of someones abilities, many people interpret commendations and 'gg' as a way of saying 'thanks for playing, I had fun!'.
Even if Muse puts in place such a system it will only work if people back it 100%. Meaning, they agree on what deserves a commendation and they stick to those guidelines. I just don't see that happening because people will hold different opinions, regardless of their skill level.
For example I'd give a commendation to a player if he/she is always positive, joking around and fun to play with.
-
I actually don't really see a problem with 'inhousing', as you call it. Is it so bad to just play with your friends/clan; not going into public games? They're not hurting anybody by playing privately amongst themselves. As for those who only crew with their clan, oh well. They know they work well together, no need to throw off their flow by adding a lower level player to the crew. If they're stacking, there are other lobbies for one, plus there's nothing stopping another stacked team from joining to face them.
If I join a lobby and see two Duck ships on the other team, I don't stay. Say one of these high level, super competitive clans decides to in-house and they never play publicly again. Who does that hurt? It's just one less clan to be pub stomped by.
-
I actually don't really see a problem with 'inhousing', as you call it. Is it so bad to just play with your friends/clan; not going into public games? They're not hurting anybody by playing privately amongst themselves. As for those who only crew with their clan, oh well. They know they work well together, no need to throw off their flow by adding a lower level player to the crew. If they're stacking, there are other lobbies for one, plus there's nothing stopping another stacked team from joining to face them.
If I join a lobby and see two Duck ships on the other team, I don't stay. Say one of these high level, super competitive clans decides to in-house and they never play publicly again. Who does that hurt? It's just one less clan to be pub stomped by.
The problem with inhousing is for one the reasoning behind it: "I can't trust regular pub players" and secondly(and more importantly): new players with no connections to the players that are inhousing cannot get in. It means effectively that the pub standards drop to dota level while a select few 'elites' are duking it out amongst themselves. And since the inhouse group has the most experience, they will usually keep a distinct advantage over regular pubbies because the regular pubbies are held back by idiots. This is basically dota all over again.
-
Pretty much all clans accept new players relatively easily and just about anyone who can gather together 7 other people can enter to play the best in the game.
-
This is all me personally, not me as a CA.
The problem with inhousing is for one the reasoning behind it: "I can't trust regular pub players" and secondly(and more importantly): new players with no connections to the players that are inhousing cannot get in.
There are no passwords to most MM matches. Anyone can join. I like to play with my clanmates most of the time. Why? Because we have a system. We know each other.
Frago knows the hull and engineering better than I do. I can focus on positioning entirely, and which rocks I want to hug out of the vast array! DMax has got my guns, and I know he'll be shouting at me if he can't hit. I play with my clan because they are awesome and they are my friends. I play against other clans because they are awesome and they are my friends. I play against/with/around newbies because I want new friends. Sometimes I don't have patience and I want to play with people who already know. Sometimes I don't mind teaching new players. I'm inconsistent. I'm human.
I don't mind having newbies for pugs when they listen. Some of the best people I played with were newbies. I never would have met them if there was a gate. I'm not going to start being "well, better stop playing with my clan" just because someone implements a gate. Gates are silly. In my opinion this would have nothing but a negative effect on the game. The system works fine, and there are ways to combat actual trolling and destructive behavior. I suggest you adapt your approach to this game accordingly. For me it helps to think of everyone who you find mildly irksome as someone who secretly deeply desires your help and approval. It's narcissistic and it doesn't work for everyone, but it makes me in my little world better able to deal with other humans, especially on the internet where you have to relax pretty much every definition and rule there is, at least for a bit.
The proper solution to your problem is to manually sift players into your friends list. Yes it's a lot of work and require much patience. Yes, it takes a long time. But it is the proper way to do it, and anything worth doing is worth doing well. Gating is not a solution. It's point blank telling people they are second class because of their inexperience.
I don't think this thread is really being constructive anymore. We can continue making the same arguments for and against until infinity and nothing will move.
-
Salute for the CA!
-
I don't think this thread is really being constructive anymore. We can continue making the same arguments for and against until infinity and nothing will move.
This.
Perhaps this thread should be closed?
-
They could just get rid of numbered levels and leave it at named titles like it was before....
I mean, does everybody know what number a artillerist is?
-
Letus, I think that is something different and possibly deserves a thread all to itself.
-
No actually, if you do that in combination of my idea, you'd have less chance of people refusing to commend lower levels and making people more likely to commend based on behavior. In that sense, it is still related to this thread and not even a bad idea.
-
With the number of players online having dropped by 90% in the last few weeks, isn't this threa a bit moot? The "less then plesant players" took care of themselves it seems.
-
Well, weekend is about to start, lets see what happens this time.
-
With the number of players online having dropped by 90% in the last few weeks, isn't this threa a bit moot? The "less then plesant players" took care of themselves it seems.
I noticed that too, but I'd blame part of it on school starting.
-
With the number of players online having dropped by 90% in the last few weeks, isn't this threa a bit moot? The "less then plesant players" took care of themselves it seems.
I noticed that too, but I'd blame part of it on school starting.
I know from some people (and I'm affected too) that the Mac problem hasn't been solved, so all the Mac players will be inactive until it's fixed...
-
I played yesterday with a kid who were obviously around 7-10 years
he did not understand his role, he did not listen to everything I said, but he tried.
He had fun doing what he was doing, and I had fun playing, since I this game doesnt punish me for trying out new tactics or just playing around.
All new players, old or young are more than welcome on my ship, as long as you are willing to have fun and listen.
stigmatising these players would leave to a more hardcore audience yes, but how can that benefit any of us, if we´re playnig to have fun.
reate a clan if you want to be tryhard, and then fight your way to the top, it´s not easy, a lot of the top teams are incredibly good, so please do that before you start complaining about new players.
I started playing last january, in that span of time I have met players who are downright trolls or just mean in general.
I added all of them to my friendslist.
the trolls are gone
the mean players are gone
those who arent gone have changed behavior and are really nice people to play with now.
-
This is the kind of thing that is quite typical and average when the in game population grows, back near the beginning of the year our population jumped to 300 (Which was larger then our average of 120) and according to a few people there were a few trolls and idiots, rude players, etc. then after a while the population dropped again and the people who remained were pretty decent, not in the fact they were good at the game, but in the fact they weren't trolls, those kind of people had left with the rest of growing players, Kirk was one of those players.
-
And I came to this game straight from Call of Duty. Even in the 1-3 lobbies, I was impressed with the community. Yes, there were trolls and dicks, but they were largely offset by the nice players. As I rose through the ranks, the community just got better and better.
Yes. There are less than pleasant players. That's just how the Internet works.
It's the fact that they're so disproportionate to the more than pleasant players that makes this game great.
And while I haven't been here long, I've seen my fair share of players troll, be nasty, or complain about the community both on the forum and in the game.
If you look back in forum history, you'll see some familiar faces defending the community, and some not-so-familiar faces saying how much it sucks.
That's not to say you should leave, Q.
I've had you both on my crew and as a fellow captain.
You're not bad at the game, you played it very well in both instances.
It's just time to let a few bad eggs stop ruining the experience for you.
-
Fragmenting the community is not a good solution to issues. New players learn best from nice, understanding good players. I'm still pretty new to this game, level 4 on my highest role. And when I was brand new, I learned the most when manning the ship of experienced captains. There were a couple early games where my captain saw I was a level 1/2 engineer. In response, they didn't get mad at me when I made mistakes. They said things like "When the hull gets hurt, repairing it is the top priority." Not in a mean nasty way, just stating a fact that I as an engineer should know. And I learned from their advice, and by the end of one of my runs on a ship the captain was confident enough in my engineering to burn kerosine 24/7 while his other 2 crew manned the guns. Had he just complained "my engines are down, stop sucking engineer" I would not have picked up a lot of the skills I did. That game was where I learned about how to prioritize, and had my first lesson in engi parkour.
-
Fragmenting the community is not a good solution to issues. New players learn best from nice, understanding good players. I'm still pretty new to this game, level 4 on my highest role. And when I was brand new, I learned the most when manning the ship of experienced captains. There were a couple early games where my captain saw I was a level 1/2 engineer. In response, they didn't get mad at me when I made mistakes. They said things like "When the hull gets hurt, repairing it is the top priority." Not in a mean nasty way, just stating a fact that I as an engineer should know. And I learned from their advice, and by the end of one of my runs on a ship the captain was confident enough in my engineering to burn kerosine 24/7 while his other 2 crew manned the guns. Had he just complained "my engines are down, stop sucking engineer" I would not have picked up a lot of the skills I did. That game was where I learned about how to prioritize, and had my first lesson in engi parkour.
This is like reply number 50 which explains their own experienced how they, as motivated players, learned the game. You keep missing the point that no two people are the same and unlike you, there's quite a few people not even remotely interested in playing the actual game and instead treat the game like a cafe. (Though, those numbers have dropped). Other than that, I cannot say I know you, so I'm not sure in what group you'd fit. The supposed newbie pool would be there for slow learners. That way some less abled players(most notably those that are 10-13 years old, but also some older folks who don't have a gaming background) can get up to speed in an environment that has lower standards. The regular pool is a pool that has relatively high standards. Even now, if I ask around, no one really has any patience for players that just don't care. These players have been the cause of numerous fallouts between captain and crew and even now is still enough of a nuisance that can create a bad environment even for people like you.
And I'm not going to call myself any sort of saint, but I'm definitely not the only one that can end up being very hostile to players that do other things than instructed by me as a pilot. Even as a crew member I've had fallouts with players that were not following captain's orders or captains that were consistently making bad decisions or ignored some very important calls from their crewmembers. As my prediction to how this would end up has been wrong, I'm dropping this for now.
But I still do not feel that the game in structure is welcoming to new players. You had the fortunate ability to play with experienced crew that were willing to help you and you seized the opportunity. The next noob might not be so lucky. And yes, I'll bring up games like DotA and LoL again, have you tried to get into those games? Learn them? Get better? Because it's a real pain there. It can take years there on what can be attained in GoIO or even Guilty Gear in mere months. That is something I still feel we should be careful of.
-
And I'm not going to call myself any sort of saint, but I'm definitely not the only one that can end up being very hostile to players that do other things than instructed by me as a pilot. Even as a crew member I've had fallouts with players that were not following captain's orders or captains that were consistently making bad decisions or ignored some very important calls from their crewmembers.
But I still do not feel that the game in structure is welcoming to new players.
Behavior you just described is one of the chief problems in the structure that is "not welcoming to new players".
The fact that players feel like it is appropriate or justified in being "very hostile" to other people at any point is truly asinine. Treating another person differently based on their skill level, or style or play is unacceptable. Consistently making bad decisions? Next time imagine if you were actually in a room with this person playing a board game perhaps, or a game of soccer/football. Even if they were making poor decisions based on their skill, or just less interested in the game at hand it wouldn't give you the right to be rude or have a "fallout". Find another lobby, make sure you are playing strictly with friends, or ask the player to join a more casual lobby.
God forbid every new player doesn't buy the game with a $300 mouse and gaming computer looking to memorize the metas, reach tournament level and become a professional GOIO player. Instead of lamenting every casual player that enters the game why don't we take some responsibility for the way *we treat newer players as well* regardless of what their goals are in game.
-
Behavior you just described is one of the chief problems in the structure that is "not welcoming to new players".
The fact that players feel like it is appropriate or justified in being "very hostile" to other people at any point is truly asinine. Treating another person differently based on their skill level, or style or play is unacceptable. Consistently making bad decisions? Next time imagine if you were actually in a room with this person playing a board game perhaps, or a game of soccer/football. Even if they were making poor decisions based on their skill, or just less interested in the game at hand it wouldn't give you the right to be rude or have a "fallout". Find another lobby, make sure you are playing strictly with friends, or ask the player to join a more casual lobby.
God forbid every new player doesn't buy the game with a $300 mouse and gaming computer looking to memorize the metas, reach tournament level and become a professional GOIO player. Instead of lamenting every casual player that enters the game why don't we take some responsibility for the way *we treat newer players as well* regardless of what their goals are in game.
I must say, you are very creative and very liberal with words. So I'm going to ask you: please don't put words in my mouth. I'm enough of an asshole without your help.
Furthermore, I never said flaming, raging, etc is a good thing. But I am saying that stuff like this happens. And that for the players that truly care, this abuse is targeted at malfunctioning players. If after 5 minutes of idiocies, my gunner tells me that the person causing trouble is sitting in his gun, I will shout that guy off. In turn, even I get shouted at for stuff I shouldn't have done; and instead of moping about that on the forums, I realize some other factors can be active here and that the player giving me the lecture has good intentions. That is me, I've been on both sides and I know what the captain is dealing with and I know what crewmembers are dealing with. I don't start off yelling at people and if players here claim they don't notice that, it's because they refuse to listen to anyone that isn't shouting.
Now your board game analogy. It's obvious you've never been even remotely competitive playing board games, card games, sport games that rely on teamplay. Otherwise you would know that if you were to dick around, you aren't welcome for long. The situations in these type of games still can go to a phase where people start yelling at eachother for numerous of reasons. Yet, it's less frequent because such games are usually among friends rather than strangers that wish to fuck around and annoy eachother.
Lets continue with your 300 dollar mouse remark. And I keep saying this and I know I speak for pretty much everyone: I do not care about your hardware, I don't care about the operating system you're playing this game on. Your headset can be pink, lila, magenta, or everything at the same time. I do not care. What I do care about is that you respect your captain, listen to him and communicate with your crew. Essentially, I ask of you and everyone playing this game to uphold a certain kind of standards that any respectable person should have. I'm not asking you to be good, I'm asking you to try and I want people to be willing to learn.
-
Umm, as some of you might know, I don't put up with inappropriate language in public forums or lobbies. And well, I came across someone using such language. I immediately informed them to watch their language... and to maybe, if they still wished to be offensive, be creative about it. They proceeded to respond with "f you". So with glee I responded with "To the deepest depths of hell with you, you lowly peasant scum." <3 <3 They left the match after that!
Love,
Adra
edit: their absence was not my intent, only that they participate in harmony with the rest of us.
-
Uhh, wrong topic? I'd honestly prefer this topic to stay buried, it was always at risk of becoming a flame war.
-
Keon, begin plan "Post in every other topic but this one."
-
ugh
yeah, I had multiple open... can that get deleted? I'll just repost it where I wanted it.
-
No problem. ;)
-
Too many inexperienced people flooding in and ruining games for the rest of the serious community! They're burdening friendly and enemy teams as clueless engineers, horrible gunners, and wrecklessly uninformed captains with ludicrous load-outs. Not to mention every time you get rightfully enraged after trying to inform their insubordinate asses of what to do and then ask them to leave after they fail to cooperate. Somebody always wants to stand up for the idiots to defend them simply because they're new.
Those people are usually the engineer or captain of the enemy team who only play with well-known, and experienced friends who have mics.
.... In other news
MUSE has already stated on the front page that the "Quick-Matches" will be turned into "Novice Matches" and the tutorials will be worked on to train up the newer generations of GOI players, to protect the pros from being nuisanced by casual gamers who want to play in a laid-back manner (Because they haven't lost enough to want to win yet. They're just losers who happen to be in the earliest and worst stage of their gaming lives, and are hurting the community for it.)
-
just looking at the amount of words he wrote down makes me think he is serious about this.
sir you deserve a medal.
-
to protect the pros from being nuisanced by casual gamers who want to play in a laid-back manner (Because they haven't lost enough to want to win yet. They're just losers who happen to be in the earliest and worst stage of their gaming lives, and are hurting the community for it.)
... what?
-
to protect the pros from being nuisanced by casual gamers who want to play in a laid-back manner (Because they haven't lost enough to want to win yet. They're just losers who happen to be in the earliest and worst stage of their gaming lives, and are hurting the community for it.)
... what?
About 95% sure Grey-Wolf's post was meant to mock the premise of the thread.
-
to protect the pros from being nuisanced by casual gamers who want to play in a laid-back manner (Because they haven't lost enough to want to win yet. They're just losers who happen to be in the earliest and worst stage of their gaming lives, and are hurting the community for it.)
... what?
About 95% sure Grey-Wolf's post was meant to mock the premise of the thread.
Really really hope so.
-
Can we let this thread die?
-
yeah unless you have any specific continuation of the threads original topic (for the sake of an actual discussion if I might add), there's no use posting here. The conflict was last held almost two months ago, so we can already pretty much classify it as necroing.
-
Lets post our plans to kill this thread on this thread so we can simultaneously and ironically bump it to keep it alive.
-
I heard there was Free Pizza here! Where is the freaking Free Pizza!
-
Umm, as some of you might know, I don't put up with inappropriate language in public forums or lobbies. And well, I came across someone using such language. I immediately informed them to watch their language... and to maybe, if they still wished to be offensive, be creative about it. They proceeded to respond with "f you". So with glee I responded with "To the deepest depths of hell with you, you lowly peasant scum." <3 <3 They left the match after that!
Love,
Adra
edit: their absence was not my intent, only that they participate in harmony with the rest of us.
<3 adra.. :D
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorched"
.. or something like that. :P