Damage system

[syst]

I'm playing this game for a week now and i just can't stop because it is so awesome! I have one question though which you will probably find dumb. I dont really grasp at how different types of damage from different guns are applied to enemy ships.

1) Lets imagine player shooting from Barking Dog (Direct 12 Flechette, AoE 8 Shatter). I understand that in order to damage baloons you should hit them. But what happens with AoE Shatter damage? Is it applied to something? In other case: what if i hit hull with this gun - will all Flechette damage go to waste?

2) Okay, now lets shoot an enemy with full armor with Scylla Double-Barreled Mortar (Direct 60 Explosive, AoE 20 Explosive). Explosives only damage hull and it is still protected by armor - what will happen? Will it drain enemy armor but in very slow rate?

3) To damage weapon or engines you should hit them directly with Shatter damage, right? But what about the damaging hull/armor - you should shot at any part of the ship besides baloon?

[Pickle]

1)  On the Weapons page of the Gameplay section of the main GOIO website there is a table with weapons stats, including the range of the AoE damage.  Unfortunately the table is broken at present.  If you hit the baloon with a carronade shot, the direct damage is done to the baloon, the AoE damage is done to the baloon and every other component within the AoE range of the hit.  There's another table shows the damage modifiers for each damage type against each component type.  Your damage does not go to waste. If you destroy the baloon you get pass-through damage which is dealt directly to the hull and bypasses armour (that's my understanding, a Dev can confirm).

2)  Check the damage table to see the modifier for Explosive damage against the armour (x0.3).  A direct hit to the armour is doing 0.3(60+20) = 24 damage to the armour.  If you were on a Pyra this is why you'd pair a hull damaging weapon like the Scylla with an armour stripping weapon like the Whirlwind.

3)  To damage the armour/hull aim at any part of the hull other than the baloon.

[Shinkurex]

1)  On the Weapons page of the Gameplay section of the main GOIO website there is a table with weapons stats, including the range of the AoE damage.  Unfortunately the table is broken at present.  If you hit the baloon with a carronade shot, the direct damage is done to the baloon, the AoE damage is done to the baloon and every other component within the AoE range of the hit.  There's another table shows the damage modifiers for each damage type against each component type.  Your damage does not go to waste. If you destroy the baloon you get pass-through damage which is dealt directly to the hull and bypasses armour (that's my understanding, a Dev can confirm).

2)  Check the damage table to see the modifier for Explosive damage against the armour (x0.3).  A direct hit to the armour is doing 0.3(60+20) = 24 damage to the armour.  If you were on a Pyra this is why you'd pair a hull damaging weapon like the Scylla with an armour stripping weapon like the Whirlwind.

3)  To damage the armour/hull aim at any part of the hull other than the baloon.

Beat me to it...

[Watchmaker]

A better way to think of the two damage values for each gun is as "primary" and "secondary". 

On hitscan weapons (the carronades and gatling gun), both units of damage are applied to whatever is actually struck.  The carronade has some additional consideration in that it fires a number of simulated pellets, each of which is handled independently.

The flamethrower is broadly similar, though since it shoots out simulated spheres each particle can hypothetically strike multiple parts (also the flamethrower is currently configured to only have primary damage, so the distinction is pointless).

On weapons with fully simulated projectiles (basically everything else), primary damage is dealt to the part hit by the projectile and secondary is dealt in a sphere around it (scaling down slightly with distance).  Weapons with arming time do not deal their secondary damage before the arming time is up.

EDIT: Hubert PIckle is correct otherwise.  Hitting any destroyed part transfers the hit to the armor/hull, before any of the multipliers are applied.

[Ccrack]

im confused about this part

'Hitting any destroyed part transfers the hit to the armor/hull, before any of the multipliers are applied.'

does that mean that if the lumberjack hit a weapon and broke it, then fired and hit that broken weapon all of its shatter damage would be transfered to the hull with out any modifiers?.

so in other words it would damage the hull more for it to shoot at a broken weapon than it would do by just fireing at the hull?

[Pickle]

I interpreted that as meaning if the lumberjack destroys the balloon the extra damage is applied to the hull, but not at the damage modifier for the balloon - the damage modifier is reset for the hull to flechette vs. hull modifier.

Lumberjack - 50 shatter, 300 flechette - against Balloon has (50x0.2) + (300x1.6) = 490 damage

If the balloon health was 190, so there's 300 extra damage.. then assuming primary damage is allocated first that leaves 300/1.6= 187.5 points flechette damage x 0.3 flechette vs. hull modifier = 56.25 points of pass-thru damage to the hull.

[Pickle]

Or does it pass-thru at 187.5 points? - Watchmaker, can you confirm with an example?

[Ccrack]

why did you interpret it to mean the lumberjack damageing the balloon?

i thought its primary damage was shatter and its aoe is flettchet meaning that it should be aimed at ship components and not the balloon or its shatter damage goes to waste

[Pickle]

why did you interpret it to mean the lumberjack damageing the balloon?

Easier for the calculations.. if it hits a gun I have to consider the AoE spreading beyond the gun and being dissipated by the armour before any pass-thru.  I've assumed a direct hit, square on the baloon with all the AoE damage being absorbed by the balloon.

Lumberjack - 50 shatter, 300 flechette AoE

Ignoring the AoE, that's 50 x 2.0 = 100 points of damage to a gun.  Assume that 50 points is enough to finish off the gun that leaves 50/2.0 = 25 points of pass-thru damage.  Or if the shatter vs. hull modifier is applied, 25x0.2 = 5 points.  Or if the original shatter vs. gun modifier applies that's 50 points.

I still need Watchmaker to confirm if it's 25 or 5 or 50 points of damage in this example.  I'm really not clear how the modifier works with pass-thru.  My best guess is that it's 5, that the initial modifier is removed and the relevant vs. hull modifier is applied.

[ATeddyBear]

I'm pretty positive that modifier pass through is based on hull damage multiplier until whatever its striking is rebuilt then that modifier is applied.

[Captain Smollett]

I recall that this was answered by a dev on the old forums.  Any damage done to a broken component spills over to the hull/armor using the appropriate hull/armor multiplyers.

[Pickle]

It was discussed here and here.

It suggests that in my last example the pass-thru damage would be 5 points.

However, I'm now really confused as in the second linked thread a CA suggests (just before the thread turns into a ****ing contest)  that the pass-thru is applied to armour first and not directly to the hull.

Can a Dev clarify?

[Ccrack]

now im more confused. is the passed on damage modified like a normal hull hit would be or not?

if it is then thats basicly all my questions answerd but if its unmodified damage wouldnt that lead to certen guns dealing to much damage to the hull by hitting broken components instead?

[Pickle]

I think part of the problem is that any clarification to date has been filtered through a CA, which is a bit like Chineese whispers.

My current understanding is the same as yours Ccrack..
- The damage is applied to the component using the base damage with vs. component modifier.
- Any surplus damage is applied to the hull and calculated from the base damage modified by the vs. hull modifier.

My confusion is now whether it's the hull or the armour that takes the pass-thru, because the clarification in the threads on the old forum has only confused me more.

[Ccrack]

i guess this goes some ways to explaining why a carranade goldfish was blowing away massive chunks of my hull before i even got near the ground