Spire Discussion.

[Chrinus]

A small note for this discussion. I believe this was mentioned in its parent thread as well, but Qwerty also has mentioned it in one of his streams.. I somewhat agree with the idea as well.

A large part of the spire's weakness is how many strikes are needed to repair the hull armor. We could tune that down and make it able to rebuild in say 2/3's of the time. Like the heavy ship equivalent of the squid... easy to strip armor, but easy to rebuild as well (within reason, of course). It'd be able to tank somewhat with constant hull supervision at the cost of her light guns basically.

Anyhow just a reiteration, carry on folks.

[Echoez]

I'd like to know if the devs have any plans regarding the Spire at least, so a dev post about that matter would be most welcome.

[Zormac]

Last I heard, there were no plans. Which is a shame, really, since the Spire could really use an upgrade. It seems to have been forsaken.

[Sammy B. T.]

A spire's armor takes more time to rebuild than a goldfish and unlike a goldfish, there is no easy way to quickly put an extra engineer on it.

[N-Sunderland]

Exactly. It takes hits like a sheet of wet toilet paper.

Just for reference, I'd consider the Squid a 1 inch-thick piece of wood.

[Letus]

The hull armour is strong enough to make the pipewrench noneffective, but weak enough that the mallet is also noneffective...

You either fight repairs...or get killed in a cooldown...

[Sonoskay]

Well... i dont know if this would work exactly... but one of the biggest issues i can see with the spire is even though it has a great turning speed its still fairly easy to flank. just getting behind it is a near death sentence.. SO maybe by buffing the turning speed... or This is an off the wall idea a bit but.. adding a light gun to the rear. Idealy a disable gun to take the heat off its rear a bit.

Though zills idea to make it galleon like is an apealing one. I would like a good tank alternitive to the galleon. I hate the galleon but would like to pilot a big ol meaty ship.

Another idea maybe is to add a Long range  medium gun that exelce at sniping...  Somthing more Reliable  than the Flak or lumberjack, somthing that needs the help from the other 2 guns in its trifecta.   though i think adding a gun like this may just add more power to the snipeing galleon.



I'm no pro and i dont know the spire that well.. Im just spitballing ideas that it seems not many have brought up yet..

[Echoez]

You know, the Spire works just like a tower does ( no pun intended ), it's best used when it just stands there and deals out punishment.

The problem is, it's not nearly enough as durable as a tower should be and there are realy no guns to support the glass cannon role it's supposed to take except the Lumberjack, which is the only gun that can deal significant ammounts of damage to both balloon and hull armor and keep firing.

I do not consider the Heavy Flak or the Hwacha fit for a glass cannon simply enough cause they do not deal nearly enough armor damage, hence, you can't take down your enemy before he does, which is the glass cannon's role and they are used better on other ships. I am assuming equal player skill for the sake of balance.

Maybe we will see the Spire used more if some other heavy weapon that fits thes glass cannon role will be released since there are no plans to change it yet.

[Zenark]

What I like about the Spire is that even though a Galleon has an extra heavy weapon on its side, a Spire can approach an enemy in a straight line while still firing on it.

I like the easier to rebuild armor idea, or just any armor/hull buff. Comparing it to the Goldfish is silly in terms of maneuverability. A Spire, in my opinion, should have better armor/hull than a Goldfish since the fishy is so much faster. As for its brawling capabilities, a Pyramidion and Junker also have better maneuverability. In a one on one fight, even if a Spire has an upper hand if its buffed, it certainly is not going to be as versatile as the other ships (in a point match, for instance).

I think the Spire should be the best ship of its role, while being weaker in others.

[HamsterIV]

I would like to see more ships in the galleon class but I don't think the spire belongs there. Attacking a Galleon is about trying to use speed and positioning to negate its superior firepower. The spire has sufficient maneuverability and gun placement that it can not be approached in the same way a Galleon is approached. Also the Spire can control engagement distance better than a Galleon giving its attackers less options in how they engage it.

[Zenark]

What about making it a bit shorter? I mean, I know it's supposed to be tower-like but the long spikes on the bottom are just ascetic, right? This wouldn't be a massive change, but it would help it's survivability against mortars and make it a bit more agile.

[Crafeksterty]

Ive been playing with the spire for some time and, the thing is. You play as a glass cannon, dont try to repair until the threat is dealt with.

But one miss with a shot like the flak is just so dangerous that the spire being squishy makes missing a total and utter failure. Which makes the glasscannon aspect of the spire, not so glasscannony when the other ships can just get close and shoot you.

The thing is, it is slender and it has very little uses of it being slender. A strafe option (Hilarious enough) would do the spire what it needs. But sense all ships work as something similar. It needs a quick turn speed and good acceleration  when moving or going up and down. Does not need speed boost, or vertical speed boost. But acceleration boost. As soon as the captain aims to go forward, the ship goes in that speed quickly.

Making the spire easy to meneuver with despite being slow is what it needs. Then, maps like the labyrinth, canyon ambush is its best friend. Same with turning speed.
It needs to look around real fast, and when it does manage to do a meneuver, needs to have an eye on its target.

Acceleration and Turning speed is what it needs in my oppinion.

[Plasmarobo]

I think maps like Labyrinth and Canyon are super dangerous to a spire!
I'm getting to the point where it's pretty easy to navigate the various obstacles, even in a Pyra. Sure I have bad days.

But those maps are so awesome for pinballing a spire!
Wait till they are near a solid surface, and ram them into it! They bounce between you and the wall as you keep moving forward with moonshine. A very crunchy + satisfying way to destroy one.

I can see them flitting behind the surface with an acceleration and turning boost, but I don't lock in until I'm sure my ram will connect anyway. Not that it's not a good idea, but I'm not sure those maps would grant too much advantage. 

[Mr.Bando]

Remove the hitbox for the pointy bottom part so you have to hit the main body to do dmg?

just a suggestion

[Echoez]

That's funny cause even that silly iron part in front of the balloon is considered hull armor as well. I could take down a Spire's armor even though the whole ship was behind a building except for half their balloon and that iron part.

I'm sure the devs were thinking of a sniper platform when making this ship, it just didn't turn out as good I guess.

Now if only it could point 2 Mercs at one target at once..