Messages

31

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 05, 2016, 01:00:41 pm »

UPDATE: OP has been edited to include the event's logo, created for us by amazingly awesome, adventurous, artistically able Ayetach. I think that's enough alliteration.

32

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 04, 2016, 03:48:55 pm »

I suggest to not allow any manual tier adjustments until X hours before the event for ship Y starts. If teams want a tier adjustment, they should ask beforehand and then the tier should be published for that loadout so every other team knows about this adjusted tier. (And then as already in the rules, teams select their final ships before they join the lobby, no matter if they asked for tier adjustments.)

I find this very important to limit the influence of the organizers in giving advantages or disadvantages and keep the tier selection fair and transparent for all participants.

This is something me and the other organizers helping me are going to have to look at. Though I can assure you the point of the Tier Adjustment Rule isn't to give advantages or disadvantages to certain teams. But rather to help make up for some of the short-comings of the numbers system that we use, which doesn't seem to cope too well with really strange/unorthodox builds.

33

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 03, 2016, 10:39:17 pm »

Let me hit these one at a time:

Fynx:

I wholeheartedly agree that this would be an undesired effect.

Still, put a flamer in place of the flare what results in a mobula with
Hades, 2 x Artemis, Light Carronade, and a Flamer -> 1.45, Tier 2
which is a loadout arguably as good if not better than
Hades, 2 x Artemis, Light Carronade, and a Flare -> 1.55, Tier 1.

That's exactly the opposite of the desired effect.
The situation, where a fully functional build with a flare doesn't get a better tier level is avoided.
Instead, there's a situation where replacing that flare with a fully functional gun from Tier 3 (it's not important if it's functional, actually) provides better tier instead.

I can fully understand that it's something difficult to balance out and so I'm not offering any particular sort of solution at this point.
However, bringing a 4th tier gun should not be punished comparing to bringing a 3th tier gun that is arguably more effective.

Firstly, thank you for bringing this to our attention. As I'm sure you're aware, balancing something like this isn't easy. To fix this Tier 1 weapons on the Mobula and Junker have been upped from 1.75 to 1.85. This should solve the issues where "Meta" build ships get tiered lower than they should be on these two ships. Our system for tiering ships was changed around several times in development, and this is clearly an instance of something getting left behind and not updated. If you find any other weird loopholes like that, let us know.

Lueosi:

I'd like to have the manually changed tiers by the organizer published in advance somewhere. For example: Deadline for manually changed tiers 2 hours before the event on that day starts; Manually changed tiers are published in the tier document. That way nobody gets a disadvantage for not selecting a loadout just because it has the same tier as an arguably better loadout - just to know after that day, that they could have brought the intended loadout and get more possible points for it.

If I don't entirely nail this, let me know because I'm a bit confused by what you're saying. Things like what Fynx brought up, where a ship that should be a higher tier and isn't, is a mistake in the system, and something that needs to be resolved (and we're hoping that everything is fine and dandy now). But, the issue with having us post a list of ships that will have their tiers lowered in advance is that we can't predict what teams will bring. And many times I'm sure even the teams wont know until minutes before we ask.

Teams are at any time more than welcome to ask via PMs or such what tier a particular ship would be if they're unsure of how we might rate it. But I'm hesitant to put a list out of the ships that would be Tier-Decreased if only for the sole reason that this tournament is essentially a blink-pick system. And listing ships that people ask about just seems unfair to the team that brings them.

34

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 03, 2016, 08:06:45 am »

However, currently there are exactly two situations why anyone would bring a 4th tier gun:
1. It's not in a relevant gun slot.
2. The pilot is confident the overall ship tier is going to be adjusted by organisers.

It's a natural result of the fact  that maths here simply do not work for 4th tier guns in any situation for any ship for any relevant gun slot. Select a random ship and put a flare (or even better, a harpoon) in any relevant gun slot. Either the points for the ship will be adjusted, or that 4th tier gun can be replaced by one of 3th tier guns allowed for that ship which is both a cheaper and more effective solution.

I'm not arguing with the general system (which I like, in fact). What I'm saying is that the full point score for the 4th tier guns is excessive.

We still encourage people to take tier 4 weapons (mostly the flare I suppose) as they see fit, but at the same time, this shouldn't lower a normal ship's tier that uses flares for their functionality, rather than to try and decrease the tier and get more points.

Consider in this case a Mobula equipped with a Hades (T1), x2 Artemis (T1), Light Carronade (T3), and a Flare (T4). Now, I would argue that a Mobula with a Hades and x2 Artemis is a fairly "Meta" setup: (1.75 Hades + 1.75 Artemis + 1.75 Artemis + 1.0 L. Carro + 1.5 Flare) / 5 = 1.55, Tier 1.

Now, with that same set up, if the Flare was any lower, lets say its valued the same as Tier 3, so 1.0, the equation turns into this instead: (1.75 Hades + 1.75 Artemis + 1.75 Artemis + 1.0 L. Carro + 1.0 Flare) / 5 = 1.45, Tier 2.

So a ship that, I personally, would otherwise argue as being completely effective, is getting a lower tier, and more points, simply because a flare is placed on it. Valuing the Tier 4 guns so highly is done for reasons like this, where having a flare on the ship should be useful to the team, but shouldn't mean that the ship should necessarily get more points because of it. Obviously this needs to be looked at by organizers on a case-by-case basis, but this is a perfect example of where having a flare on a ship doesn't mean that it'll get a lower tier.   

35

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 02, 2016, 06:09:10 pm »

There might be a few things I don't understand entirely. In any case I have an observation regarding rules.
It's going to be a little bit complicated.

In every situation a single 4th tier gun in a relevant gun slot on every ship takes 1.5 (full point) which is equal to the 2th tier point penalty.
The 4th tier guns are flares and harpoons (except for goldfish).

It's understandable that if there were no points (penalty) for bringing those guns in relevant, but not necessary guns slots (i.e one upper gun on a mobula), pilots would bring those guns intentionally to decrease the overall ship point penalty.
On the other side usefulness of those guns in general isn't superior to the 3th tier guns, but the single 4th tier gun point penalty (full points) is greater than those of 3th tier guns.
Also, in some cases (i.e galleon, light side gun) using 4th tier guns rather than 3th tier guns (that "cost" less) severely damages the performance of the ship.
I understand it's intentional. Is there a reason for it, since gun tiers and relevant gun slots are listed for each ship specifically?

Everything you said was correct Fynx. Tier 4 guns are valued at 1.5 (same as Tier 2) for the exact reason you gave an example for; "pilots would bring those guns intentionally to decrease the overall ship point penalty." On the other hand, we realize that certain ship builds are actually hindered by the use of Tier 4 guns, which is why "The organizers hold the right to decrease a ship’s tier if it is deemed necessary." (Forum post, Scoring and Points, 1st paragraph, last sentence). The Galleon you gave as an example is a perfect candidate for why this stipulation was put in place. There's no way we can get the math to work just perfectly for every crazy ship build people can think of. So, to deter people from purposefully 'gaming' the system (such as placing a flare on the tops of a Mobula to decrease the ship's tier and give it more points, while otherwise being fully functional) tier 4 guns were valued the same as tier 2. It is an intentional way for us to simply close  an otherwise mathematical loop hole with how ships would be tiered. 

If that didn't fully answer you, please let me know.

36

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 02, 2016, 02:56:38 pm »

I can't wait to see the combinations that the teams come up with.

You and me both!

37

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 02, 2016, 12:42:22 pm »

Lemme try to hit these one at a time;

I got confused because at some point it says "Each week a different ship will be selected and all teams will fly that ship"

What this means is that on, say, "Junker Week", the only ship that's available to take will be the Junker. So all matches will consist of 2 Junkers vs. 2 Junkers. Same with the 6 other ship types.

"Tier 1 ship paired with a Tier 3 ship..." - So how is the ship selection done, do you have to play all ships during the course of the event, but you can have different ships in a game?

You decide the tier! While the ship classes are locked depending on the week (Pyramidion Week is Pyramidions only, Goldfish Week is Goldfish only) you decide the weapons that you'd like the bring on each of your ships. These load-outs will then be tiered via our Scoring and Points System. The lower your tier (remember Tier 1 is the highest, Tier 4 is the lowest), the more points you will get if you win a match. Each ship will be tiered separately depending on its load-out and points awarded to the winner of a match based on the ships that they used to secure victory. So a Tier 1 and Tier 2 ship will garner more points on a win, but may be harder to win vs. say, two Tier 1 ships. 

Just keep in mind for this that "All team captains are required to give the referee or event organizer their ships load out before entering lobby. Once in lobby a team can not change their ships load out. You may change pilot, gunner and engineer load outs." as it says in the rules. This is so we can get the teams' ship tiers written down properly, and also to try and discourage 'counter-picking' in the lobby, since you already know the ships that you'll be up against, just not their load-outs.

38

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 02, 2016, 12:14:59 pm »

Does 8 players per team mean two ships or one ship? Aka is this a single ship or full team (two ship) event?

The event is catered around 'full' 2 ship teams. We're possibly planning on opening sign ups earlier for teams of 1 ship to partner with one another if they're interested? But its structured around a standard team of 2 ships.

Because I asked your feedback on the idea fucking ages ago.
Redacted
This is not passive aggressive, this is aggressive based on lack of basic common courtesy, I spoke directly to you about this on Steam, and sure I got busy couldn't arrange it as soon as I would have liked, but you taking over the idea and then later claiming you knew nothing about it and digging at my passive aggressive nature because of this, for a moderator that's pretty crappy.

Firstly Kamoba, as a Community Ambassador I'm sure you're familiar with Code of Conduct: Article 6, which states "You may not reveal or share unpublished personal information about other players or representatives of Muse Games...or share or publicize private communications, including DMs/PMs or private chatlogs, without their express consent. So you're already breaking that one (and yes, it does apply to Steam messages related to Guns of Icarus.)

Furthermore if I'm entirely honest, no I don't remember that conversation that happened 2-3 months ago, and especially since haven't heard anything of it since. However, I never accused you of not working on something similar. Merely that how was I to know that months later without update you would be working on something without hearing anything of it. I think this is an unfortunate accident of happenstance and I apologize for that, but you need to calm down.

Also if you'd like to continue this conversation Kamoba I'd appreciate it be brought to PMs so that this thread doesn't get derailed.

39

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 02, 2016, 11:25:26 am »

*Throws Google docs work towards the tournament rules in the bin.*

Sure I've been busy lately to push this idea forward, but in future it would be nice to let me know if you would like to take over the organization and host it.

Either way gl hf with the tournament.

With all due respect, how would you possibly expect me to predict that you were in the process of working on something similar? The passive-aggressiveness of your post is not appreciated.

But thank you. We're hoping people will like it.

40

Community Events / Re: Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 01, 2016, 10:10:38 pm »

"The organizers hold the right to decrease a ship’s tier if it is deemed necessary."

This should be restricted so that changes can't be made on match days. At the very least, teams should be given ample time to choose another weapon permutation in the event that this occurs.

I apologize if this seems worded poorly. Basically we ran into a problem where some very silly ship builds didn't quite work properly with the numbers that we had arranged. Due to this, I wanted to include that clause stating that if a ship's load-out seems like it should be lower than the math says it is, than the organizers have a liberty to change it. As we all know math doesn't always fit nice and perfect into the real world.

In the event of this however, there's nothing to restrict a team from bringing a ship like this, just that they'd get more points for bringing it and winning with it. It just means that we might determine that the math may be incorrect and the ship is more difficult/unorthodox than our numbers say it is. And again, this is only for REALLY STRANGE builds, and I don't see it coming up very often.

At any point in time a team is more than willing to ask what a ship's build tier would be. I'm hesitant to restrict this clause to before the match day, due to just the fact that sometimes teams aren't necessarily as prepared as they 'should' be, and may only decide what they'd like to bring the last minute before we ask them.

Edit: By "Decrease Tier", we had in our mind that Tier 1 is the top; going Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 4. This is why in the Scoring and Points document "Tier 1" is listed first. The "lower" your tier, the more points you get. So Tier 4 is lower (decreased) than Tier 1. We didn't want to take points away from teams.

Please let me know if that didn't fully answer your comment.

41

Community Events / Re: Sunday Community Skirmish #100 (Signups for Sunday May 1st)

« on: May 01, 2016, 05:55:17 pm »

I meant to post this sooner, but congrats to the Sunday Community Skirmish for 100 Weeks (so far) on giving Guns of Icarus' competitive community a place to duke it out. Cheers.

42

Community Events / Tournament: 7 Deadly Ships! (Information)

« on: May 01, 2016, 05:26:16 pm »

Come one! Come all! To the first ever in Guns of Icarus history, the 7 Deadly Ships Event! The only place where every ship gets its time in the spotlight!

Synopsis:

Each week will be themed around one of the seven ships available to us in Guns of Icarus. Those ships being the Pyramidion, Goldfish, Squid, Galleon, Junker, Spire, and Mobula respectably. During these weeks, only that particular kind of ship will be allowed in play by the teams. Furthermore, these ships will be divided into tiers based on their weapon loadouts and given more points based on their impracticality. Tier 1 being the most "Meta" set ups available, to Tier 4 being "Absolutely Insane." The higher tier ship you bring into your match, the more points you get if you win!

Sign-Ups:

Click here for the Official Sign-Ups.
Click here for the Partner Sign-Ups.

Schedule:

• 7 Deadly Ships is a 7 week long tournament starting on Saturday, May 21st.
• Matches will be presented and streamed by Nat Nyls and Thomas of [SPQR].
• Referees will be SapphireSage and Jub Jub.
  
• Matches will begin promptly at 7:00pm UTC/3:00pm EDT.
  
  • Sign Ups Start Friday, May 6th.
  • Sign Ups End Wednesday May 18th.
  • All 7 Weeks Maps and Matches will be posted after Sign-Ups close
  • For further time-based inquiries please use http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/.
• The Week's Themes:
  
  • Week 1: Junker: May 21st
  • Week 2: Spire: May 28th
  • Week 3: Pyramidion: June 4th
  • Week 4: Galleon: June 11th
  • Week 5: Squid: June 18th
  • Week 6: Goldfish: June 25th
  • Week 7: Mobula: July 2nd

Teams:

• Teams will consist of 8 Players.
• Information requested from each team:
• Team Name
• Two Contacts with in-game name and Steam ID (Steam ID may be sent to competitive@musegames.com with the Subject titled "7 Deadly Ships Team Contacts")
• If you do not provide a Steam ID and ONLY an In-Game Contact - If there is a conflict or you are not in game to be contacted for match lobbies, the responsibility falls on the Team Captain.
• Team Logo (Not required, but highly requested)
• Please only sign up if you are confident that you can produce a full team for the whole tournament.

Tournament Set-Up:

Rules: (For a full list of the Rules and other tournament details: Full Rules)

• First Match Starts at 7:00pm UTC Saturdays, all following matches do not start at a set time, so it is best to be in game and ready to go for the entire duration of the event.
• Matches have a 20 min time limit.
• Subs can only play for 1 team per week.
• 1 Pause allowed per team per match. This pause is at maximum 2 minutes long.
• Lobbies are always hosted in America, unless both teams agree they wish to play on Europe. (other servers are not acceptable because: referees and casters).
• Referees are responsible for contacting each team’s contact and giving them the lobby password.
• Each week, over the duration of the event (7 weeks), only one ship type is allowed. ie, on Goldfish Week, only Goldfish will be taken by the teams.
• All team captains are required to give the referee or event organizer their ships load out before entering lobby. Once in lobby a team can not change their ships load out. You may change pilot, gunner and engineer load outs.
• Participants are asked not to use in game chat in anyway, except for matters involving the referee (i.e. Pauses, substitutions).
• It is the responsibility of every team to read the full rule set before signing up for 7 Deadly Ships. Link above.

Scoring and Points:

Each ship has light and heavy guns organized into 4 tiers based on their effectiveness on that particular ship. Each gun tier has a score, those scores are averaged together to give the ship its overall ship tier score. This is the score that is used to allocate points for a win. Both ships in a team get an individual score and are added together for a team score once they win. There are some exceptions to how guns are scored, see exceptions below. The organizers hold the right to decrease a ship’s tier if it is deemed necessary.

Once an averaged ship score is decided the ship gets a Tier level. For each ship level a number of points can be earned based on that tier. Both ships points are added together to get a teams score for that match. At the end of the 7 weeks all winning match points are added together. Whichever team has the most points at the end of the 7 weeks wins. In case of a tie in score at the end of the 7 weeks will result in a Week 8: 7 matches: 7 ships played on 7 different matches. The team with the most points at the end of the 7 matches wins the event.

To View the scoring and points click here

Maps:

Map Pool:

• Battle on the Dunes
• Canyon Ambush
• Clash Over Blackcliff
• Fight Over Firnfield
• Northern Fjords
• Paritan Rumble
• Water Hazard
• Duel At Dawn

To prevent boredom from playing the same maps for multiple matches in a row, the event organizers will re-randomize maps if a team plays on the same one multiple times in a week.

Awards:

• First place team will receive: "7 Deadly Ships” Champion Badge and a Unique Title
• Second place team will receive: “7 Deadly Ships” Runner-Up Badge and a Unique Title
• Other Participates will receive: “7 Deadly Ships” Participation Badge

 

We're looking for feedback for this event, and any questions/concerned that people may have. Remember: this thread will be further updated as things change. Please keep in mind all information is subject to change up until the release of sign-ups for the event.

43

General Discussion / Re: are we excited?!

« on: April 30, 2016, 07:53:05 pm »

#ExcitedForNewContent

#SkirmishLove
#MuchExcite
#MoarModez
#DoWant
#AdaptTheMaps
#NerfTheMobula
#FixTheMobula
#NerfTheMobula
#DoItRight
#PSChaosSkirmishSaturdaysIsTonightAndThisIsntHowToHashtag

#learnhowtohashtagnoobloljkatruejedisorryforthetrollyreplywowthisisareallylonghashtagwithoutspacingorproperpuncuationibetsomeoneisgoingtogetreallyannoyedwiththislikesomeonewhoisocdaboutthissortofthingmygoodnessthisisareallyreallylonghashtagihopenooneisstillreadingthiswhyareyoustillreadingthisforgoodnesssakestopyourejustgettingdyslexiaatthispointalsoifyourestillherethatchaosskirmishthinglooksprettycoolyoushouldgocheckitoutyo

44

General Discussion / Re: are we excited?!

« on: April 30, 2016, 10:35:03 am »

Considering you know immediately which ship is the VIP (the top on for each team) and what they're taking, if you bring ships that can't effectively catch and kill a Squid, even though the opposing VIP ship is spotted with a symbol every few seconds even when its not spotted (effectively meaning that you can see the ship from across the map); that's not a fault of game mechanics, but lack of preparation. Every game mode has a "preferred-pick" as far as ships and load-outs go.

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General Discussion / Re: are we excited?!

« on: April 30, 2016, 10:00:53 am »

I am afraid Squid kills the VIP gamemode

VIP ships: Spire, Junker, Galleon, Mobula. Each team must have atleast one of these to be able to start the match. If there are more than one of these the VIP ship will either a) Picked randomly at the start of the game or b) Picked randomly during the lobby and the title can be passed on and swapped with other captains who bring one of these 4 ships.

As someone who's already played the VIP mode a couple times: VIP is always the top ship in the lobby (regardless of what ship class they are). In game a VIP symbol should flash on the opposing VIP every few seconds unless they are actually spotted, then the symbol stays solid. A non-VIP killing the VIP is valued at 1 point, the VIP killing the VIP is valued at 2 points.

Everything previously stated above is subject to change, but that's how its currently being engineered. Squids are fine.