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Feedback and Suggestions / Re: PvP night maps. Remove or leave?
« on: September 08, 2017, 10:22:32 pm »
Edit: Missed sarcasm, blame Irma
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Feedback and Suggestions / Re: PvP night maps. Remove or leave?
« on: September 08, 2017, 09:41:43 pm »Players with lower quality monitors/laptops are more heavily impacted, which makes night maps unfair.Players with shittier internet get more ping, that makes multiplayer play unfair. Plz remove multiplayer.
Players with shittier computers have more lag making the game unfair. Remove medium and high graphics settings
Players with shittier headphones get worse audio maaking it harder to hear enemy ships moving, making the game unfair. Plz remove sound.
No...
1. Devs usually favor low ping players with their netcode. Like GOI. Games that benefit high ping (peeker's advantage) try their best to reduce it, and otherwise you don't have to play. Bad netcode games usually aren't successful because bad netcode isn't fun
2. The only times graphics settings are reduced are when there's no impact to visuals. For example, reducing unnecessarily high tessellation or polygons. "Optimizing" often takes this form and yet players don't complain. Devs often don't mention reduced values to avoid a negative placebo effect. I'm unaware of any game that removed higher graphics settings. Care to elaborate?
3. Again, I'm unaware of any game that sacrificed audio quality...for no reason at all? The opposite happens - sound and tracking get better
4. (bonus) You should've mentioned framerate limiting to prove your shitty point, not that I can recall any recent example (i.e. the game artificially locks framerate independent of game engine limitation and cannot be changed by the player)
On the other hand, it's common for devs to reduce darkness or change lighting effects based on player feedback
On my gaming monitor I turn on my Black eQualizer profile with a press of a button and see everything perfectly. On my integrated graphics PC with a (good) ASUS MB169C+ monitor it's too dark. Seems like a common complaint. Obviously it's better to fix rather than remove content, but I'm fine with removing the maps until a fix. I don't find it fair to subject players to blindness based on their monitor. Plus my crew perform better in the light. Win win
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Feedback and Suggestions / Re: More slots for recommended loadout
« on: September 07, 2017, 09:50:35 pm »
Yes, and Muse could even offer it as a paid feature in the store. I have no interest in cosmetics and have given away or not used all my credits for free items. I'd pay a few bucks to support Muse with this. Or give everyone a couple extra slots. Either way it's a great and simple QOL improvement
If it's available for everyone for free then it should be a checkbox option and not default. Otherwise it just adds complexity and clutter
If it's available for everyone for free then it should be a checkbox option and not default. Otherwise it just adds complexity and clutter
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Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Additional slot for spyglass only in pilot tools.
« on: September 03, 2017, 11:37:26 am »
The captain can mark ships (what's the default key?) and it functions like spyglass. Maybe the duration could be increased, but I haven't noticed it being an issue except for all-AI
Spotting is an important crew job - the Gunner's top priority is spotting ships. Politely remind them in match. Yes, sometimes crew won't spot but that's a communication/teamwork issue
Spotting is an important crew job - the Gunner's top priority is spotting ships. Politely remind them in match. Yes, sometimes crew won't spot but that's a communication/teamwork issue
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Dev App Testing / Re: Dev App Testing change-log: 18 August, 2017
« on: August 21, 2017, 07:41:46 pm »The tested Minotaur cut the force in half, so only had 100,000x2 (200,000) N force per buckshot. In addition, there were 3 buckshot per shot, so the combined force if all three hit is 600,000 N instead of 2 million. However, the 2 jitter instead of 3.5 means a lot more of those are hitting, which is why the 3 buckshot version was OP as far as force.
3.5 vs 2 jitter is irrelevant in terms of buckshots hitting because you always use heavy clip or are close enough to not need heavy clip. Every buckshot always hits, and all buckshots hitting doesn't necessarily mean it's effective. Even if every shot hits it's possible to have zero impact on their horizontal movement or even move them in the opposite direction you intend. Therefore, currently the only time you don't use heavy clip is for very close range, and shatter damage also plays a critical role (also proposed to be heavily nerfed)
Reducing jitter increases the effective range of not needing heavy clip - nothing else. In it's current implementation, that would be welcome
Its role is mid-long range and is beaten at closer ranges by Hwatcha and Hcarro. Reducing force with a high clip count just makes it worse and more frustrating to fight against. Low force and low damage remove both of it's advantages in the initial engagement and closing range defense. Low force is countered by moonshine/kero, and low shatter damage means less skill and more buffs necessary (hence the bloated change list). I never heard any vet claim current minotaur is OP in damage or force, in fact it's balanced besides the high aiming difficulty and extremely slow cycle time - second only to flare...
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: August 05, 2017, 11:01:40 am »This was never about Greased being OP. It was about Greased being ONLY. Gatling is perfectly fine with just standard rounds. Greased far overshadowed all the other rounds, making it a one ammo gun. There was rarely any reason to bring anything else. Greased was standard ammo. Load it in and forget about it.
It is not standard ammo in Hades and Lumberjack. Normal also plays its part, along with several other ammos. They have a meta set of ammo, instead of just one meta ammo.
Greased is the standard ammo in Hades and Lumber at closer than lesmok range. I believe I've seen you, Richard, use greased exclusively for Engi Hades on Junker, Mobula, and Pyra. Likewise, you don't bring greased for Gat if you plan on mostly engaging at further ranges. Closing range with high DPS guns often isn't difficult, and the effective range of greased helps facilitate this
-20% range for +15% DPS is a great tradeoff
Being a standard ammo isn't reason to change it. Ammos all have a standard use depending on gun function (scatter = heavy, low clip = charged etc.). Greased is ubiquitous because it's powerful without drawback for many guns because these guns function similarly (and are simpler to design). In addition, it has the added benefit of reducing arm range which opens up its use to more guns. It's effective range is too far, and that's a good reason to change it, but +90% jitter does more harm than good
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Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Autoswtich lobby slots. Dev discussion and poll
« on: August 04, 2017, 10:16:11 pm »
Yes, but instead of blocking gunners from joining mid-match in slot 2 or 3, lock them to engineer if there's already a gunner aboard. Locking out gunners from joining mid-match on a ship with no gunners would frustrate players. A common belief is that ships need gunners, and they may blame their loss on not having a gunner. Alternatively, there could be an option for custom lobbies as a checkbox to "lock crew positions" so captains are pilots and there's only one gunner
Most important to me is the ability to change class mid match. This is an essential feature that was disabled two years ago (and the subject of my first forum post). There have been various workarounds, and I'm told every six months by Muse that a plan is in the works, but in the meantime I have to tell every extra gunner to leave. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not the current workaround works, but I don't remember any recent example of it working for newer players (and they try). Thankfully, they almost always leave and don't get to play
There's no reason to block class changing and require a secret workaround. IF there was a reason to abuse class switching, which there's not, those players already know the workaround and would be using it!
I've never heard a single instance of abuse in 3k hours, and that was the sole reason given for blocking it... Meanwhile, players are regularly frustrated by joining as the wrong class and being unable to swap
Most important to me is the ability to change class mid match. This is an essential feature that was disabled two years ago (and the subject of my first forum post). There have been various workarounds, and I'm told every six months by Muse that a plan is in the works, but in the meantime I have to tell every extra gunner to leave. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not the current workaround works, but I don't remember any recent example of it working for newer players (and they try). Thankfully, they almost always leave and don't get to play
There's no reason to block class changing and require a secret workaround. IF there was a reason to abuse class switching, which there's not, those players already know the workaround and would be using it!
I've never heard a single instance of abuse in 3k hours, and that was the sole reason given for blocking it... Meanwhile, players are regularly frustrated by joining as the wrong class and being unable to swap
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Gameplay / Magnate Theory
« on: July 25, 2017, 10:47:01 am »
With the introduction of new content, it's helpful to share your experiences and tips for other players. Here's my impression of the Magnate and ideas on how best to exploit its advantages and mitigate its weaknesses
Front Engi
Front engi choice is pretty straight forward: spanner mallet chem. Due to hull proximity and lack of other nearby components, chem is the right choice. When not facing direct armor damage the main engi can use their stamina and run to the main engine. This can be repaired from below like Galleon but the two other crew may be preoccupied with the four guns, two engines, and balloon. It's probably best to put the main engi in charge of main engine repairs full time when not in combat to allow constant engine burning and avoid engine damage.
This is the best position for a less experienced crew member, but doesn't mean it's any less critical than the rear positions
Rear Positions
The rear two positions are tricky. Normally the mid-deck would be a position for a wrench buff engi, but the position is further from the turning engines and balloon than the heavy gun position. Playing with a wrench buff in the middle and spanner mallet buff on the heavy gun felt lacking in repairs, and for this reason I switched to a second main engi kit with chem
A more natural setup is having the gunner in the middle and a main engi in the rear. This gives the main engi access to repairs and chems during reloads but loses the buff or gunner stamina on the heavy gun
With a double-buff setup it's possible to switch the roles and have the wrench buff on the rear and spanner mallet buff in the middle. The benefit is chem on the balloon and two buff hammers, but you lost the mallet on the heavy gun and balloon. I don't find this tradeoff worth it and would recommend only one buff hammer on this ship against dangerous opponents - similar to Mobula
If using a single buff hammer, there's arguments for both setups but I recommend starting with the buff in the middle and main kit in the rear. This gives better fire protection and is simpler for the crew
Loadouts can be built around these repair limitations. For example, if both guns use the same ammo then either engi/gunner can man them and positions can be swapped. A gunner could also move from the Hwatcha to the upper gun during reload if repairs are required by the main engi
Long range setups
Lumberjack Hades Banshee is a powerful combo. Arcs can get tricky so the 60 degree arcs of the Banshee are helpful. Either heavy clip or greased can be used for the Banshee. Heavy clip is great for long range precision, and greased can be used for closer range or the right side gun. Fewer heavy clip gun choices are available on the right side, but a great choice is Light Carro with its helpful 55 degree arcs
HCarro MK2 and Hflak are also viable for long range but more tricky due to the Magnate's vulnerability to disable. A Merc can even work in place of the Hades for extreme ranges. Coupled with a front Artemis or Banshee, the Merc and heavy gun can be deadly to large targets like Spire and Galleon at long range. Minotaur is harder to justify due to low kill power and lengthy reload
Mid range
Hwatcha is a natural choice due to its effectiveness at close and medium range. Minotaur, Hflak, and Hcarro2 can fit this role but may lack disable and kill power against dangerous opponents
Right side
Assuming your left side is for longer range, the right is usually built for closer ranges. Hwatcha, Hcarro, and HCarro2 can fit this role. HCarro is powerful but has limited arcs. HCarro2 can be used in combo with disable and kill guns, but is quite weak by itself. It holds the advantage of good arcs and being simple to use
Good front arcs still apply for the right side - I recommend Banshee, Flame, or Lcarro due to their arcs and close range power. The mid gun position is flexible with Gat being a popular choice
Favorite Loadouts?
My favorite loadout so far is double mine Hwatcha, flame mortar Hcarro. Mines are fun to use and the heavy clip Hwatcha can buy time before they start impacting. A gunner could fit well on this setup either shooting the mine or jumping to the Hwatcha for better arcs
The right side, flame (front) mortar Hcarro is potent at killing under-chemmed ships, but against Pyra Hwatcha is a clear better choice
Piloting Tips
I'm using the standard Kero, Claw, Hydro loadout. The Magnate is fairly maneuverable and easy to fly. Avoid heavy disable fire by protecting the rear. Be aware of your movement when using long range to avoid throwing off the gunner's shots. Plays pretty standard to me and nothing in particular to report, except to use Practice mode first to learn arcs
In summary, the Magnate is vulnerable to disable and heavily repair limited at the rear. Spread out repair cycles make transitioning from the mid gun to rear repairs time consuming. With organized crew roles or non-standard position setups these limitations can be partially mitigated. Powerful gun combos and good flying characteristics make it effective in pubs
What are your thoughts?
Front Engi
Front engi choice is pretty straight forward: spanner mallet chem. Due to hull proximity and lack of other nearby components, chem is the right choice. When not facing direct armor damage the main engi can use their stamina and run to the main engine. This can be repaired from below like Galleon but the two other crew may be preoccupied with the four guns, two engines, and balloon. It's probably best to put the main engi in charge of main engine repairs full time when not in combat to allow constant engine burning and avoid engine damage.
This is the best position for a less experienced crew member, but doesn't mean it's any less critical than the rear positions
Rear Positions
The rear two positions are tricky. Normally the mid-deck would be a position for a wrench buff engi, but the position is further from the turning engines and balloon than the heavy gun position. Playing with a wrench buff in the middle and spanner mallet buff on the heavy gun felt lacking in repairs, and for this reason I switched to a second main engi kit with chem
A more natural setup is having the gunner in the middle and a main engi in the rear. This gives the main engi access to repairs and chems during reloads but loses the buff or gunner stamina on the heavy gun
With a double-buff setup it's possible to switch the roles and have the wrench buff on the rear and spanner mallet buff in the middle. The benefit is chem on the balloon and two buff hammers, but you lost the mallet on the heavy gun and balloon. I don't find this tradeoff worth it and would recommend only one buff hammer on this ship against dangerous opponents - similar to Mobula
If using a single buff hammer, there's arguments for both setups but I recommend starting with the buff in the middle and main kit in the rear. This gives better fire protection and is simpler for the crew
Loadouts can be built around these repair limitations. For example, if both guns use the same ammo then either engi/gunner can man them and positions can be swapped. A gunner could also move from the Hwatcha to the upper gun during reload if repairs are required by the main engi
Long range setups
Lumberjack Hades Banshee is a powerful combo. Arcs can get tricky so the 60 degree arcs of the Banshee are helpful. Either heavy clip or greased can be used for the Banshee. Heavy clip is great for long range precision, and greased can be used for closer range or the right side gun. Fewer heavy clip gun choices are available on the right side, but a great choice is Light Carro with its helpful 55 degree arcs
HCarro MK2 and Hflak are also viable for long range but more tricky due to the Magnate's vulnerability to disable. A Merc can even work in place of the Hades for extreme ranges. Coupled with a front Artemis or Banshee, the Merc and heavy gun can be deadly to large targets like Spire and Galleon at long range. Minotaur is harder to justify due to low kill power and lengthy reload
Mid range
Hwatcha is a natural choice due to its effectiveness at close and medium range. Minotaur, Hflak, and Hcarro2 can fit this role but may lack disable and kill power against dangerous opponents
Right side
Assuming your left side is for longer range, the right is usually built for closer ranges. Hwatcha, Hcarro, and HCarro2 can fit this role. HCarro is powerful but has limited arcs. HCarro2 can be used in combo with disable and kill guns, but is quite weak by itself. It holds the advantage of good arcs and being simple to use
Good front arcs still apply for the right side - I recommend Banshee, Flame, or Lcarro due to their arcs and close range power. The mid gun position is flexible with Gat being a popular choice
Favorite Loadouts?
My favorite loadout so far is double mine Hwatcha, flame mortar Hcarro. Mines are fun to use and the heavy clip Hwatcha can buy time before they start impacting. A gunner could fit well on this setup either shooting the mine or jumping to the Hwatcha for better arcs
The right side, flame (front) mortar Hcarro is potent at killing under-chemmed ships, but against Pyra Hwatcha is a clear better choice
Piloting Tips
I'm using the standard Kero, Claw, Hydro loadout. The Magnate is fairly maneuverable and easy to fly. Avoid heavy disable fire by protecting the rear. Be aware of your movement when using long range to avoid throwing off the gunner's shots. Plays pretty standard to me and nothing in particular to report, except to use Practice mode first to learn arcs
In summary, the Magnate is vulnerable to disable and heavily repair limited at the rear. Spread out repair cycles make transitioning from the mid gun to rear repairs time consuming. With organized crew roles or non-standard position setups these limitations can be partially mitigated. Powerful gun combos and good flying characteristics make it effective in pubs
What are your thoughts?
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 22, 2017, 12:50:30 pm »
Thanks Richard, so we see 36% of shots missed with regular ammo at 300m, which roughly equated to greased at 165m. The actual values are 300m regular = 157m greased, so this real-world test is very close (and luckily near the exact breaking point!). With greased+30% that would be 224m, which is 38% less than max range. This example isn't the whole story of course because the opponent is repairing and greased deals 1039 armor damage per clip (Galleon is 800 armor). This particular test would be closer to that of a Spire in combat (armor = 400 + mallet)
Greased90 reduces range in this scenario by 48% and Greased30 by 25%. The downside of +90% of course is all the side effects (and lack thereof). A light carro at 200m (77% max range) is reduced to just 103m. Other powerful guns, Hades and LJ, are unaffected
I'm happy to reduce Greased effectiveness by 1/4 or even 1/3 but not by 1/2. If 25% is unnoticeable then why was greased overpowered? If 25% is unnoticeable then the 15% of greased was nothing to worry about in the first place!
Greased90 reduces range in this scenario by 48% and Greased30 by 25%. The downside of +90% of course is all the side effects (and lack thereof). A light carro at 200m (77% max range) is reduced to just 103m. Other powerful guns, Hades and LJ, are unaffected
I'm happy to reduce Greased effectiveness by 1/4 or even 1/3 but not by 1/2. If 25% is unnoticeable then why was greased overpowered? If 25% is unnoticeable then the 15% of greased was nothing to worry about in the first place!
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 22, 2017, 10:57:27 am »
I'm intrigued! So you tested greased vs greased+ against target dummies and counted the shots/time to break armor? What were the results? And like I said, that's the minimum necessary test to get a baseline of performance. You should absolutely try more tests at different speeds and even simulate combat. Gotta say though, I've witnessed Dev App combat tests in the past and was not impressed. They're only accurate when everyone has rules how to shoot and repair, otherwise they're...not accurate. A simple mistake can mean a 30% difference in time to break armor
Unfortunately I'm often not available Saturday to assist, and if I was I'm not sure how much help I could be. When I participated in the past it was more of a free-for-all and I didn't find it useful. If I was around last time I'd swear to you guys that I could actually tell the difference between between a 78% larger circle, and that answer would be be no more useful than "unnoticeable"
The issue is "unnoticeable". What does that mean? Does it mean less than 10% DPS/C (or DPC) difference? Because I roughly estimate (using the the "eye" method) greased+ at 300m deals ~+ -20% DPS/C when aiming at a straight-ahead Pyra. The jitter area is a whopping 78% larger...
Hmmm... if only there were numbers....
Unfortunately I'm often not available Saturday to assist, and if I was I'm not sure how much help I could be. When I participated in the past it was more of a free-for-all and I didn't find it useful. If I was around last time I'd swear to you guys that I could actually tell the difference between between a 78% larger circle, and that answer would be be no more useful than "unnoticeable"
The issue is "unnoticeable". What does that mean? Does it mean less than 10% DPS/C (or DPC) difference? Because I roughly estimate (using the the "eye" method) greased+ at 300m deals ~+ -20% DPS/C when aiming at a straight-ahead Pyra. The jitter area is a whopping 78% larger...
Hmmm... if only there were numbers....
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 20, 2017, 06:26:18 pm »
Reminder: Dev App tests are not accurate. "Getting a feel" can be useful for simple things like arc changes, but is otherwise useless unless you test accurately. Here's the bare minimum of an acceptable test of greased vs greased +30% jitter. Note: to be proper it requires A/B testing (double blind, recorded from all POVs, many rounds etc), and even then it's never better than running the numbers!
Have two identical ships at a set distance fire opposite greased at each other while aiming at the same point and swapping ammos each round. Screenshot armor and repeat until results are consistent. Retest at more ranges and with other ships
If this kind of test is too difficult or time consuming then don't test at all! Without testing you end up with biased results like "the 33% larger radius was unnoticeable". Inaccurate tests yield false results... and lead to +90% jitter
Have two identical ships at a set distance fire opposite greased at each other while aiming at the same point and swapping ammos each round. Screenshot armor and repeat until results are consistent. Retest at more ranges and with other ships
If this kind of test is too difficult or time consuming then don't test at all! Without testing you end up with biased results like "the 33% larger radius was unnoticeable". Inaccurate tests yield false results... and lead to +90% jitter
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 20, 2017, 05:02:46 pm »
We know exactly how greased affects guns. I for one already made the swap to greased Hades on every build that doesn't require the horizontal arcs, and let me tell you that dealing the same DPS as regular Gat with better accuracy and fires and hull damage and a burst radius is pretty great! (and just as OP as ever 
)
Here's a rough representation of regular vs greased at 300m - which is 83% of its max range. The new range at which it's as effective as regular at 300m is now 150m
Ha! Good luck getting that close with your greased Gat against greased Hades
)Here's a rough representation of regular vs greased at 300m - which is 83% of its max range. The new range at which it's as effective as regular at 300m is now 150m
Ha! Good luck getting that close with your greased Gat against greased Hades
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 20, 2017, 01:53:23 pm »
For reference, thanks to Richard
See bottom right legend
See bottom right legend
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 20, 2017, 01:31:04 pm »
Jitter can't be adjusted for because it's random and 5 deg jitter is equal to light carronade
Jitter radius = tan (jitter deg) * range
Lumber would be one of the most affected guns by base jitter due to its long effective range of around 500m against the ships its good against. At 500m with 3 deg the jitter radius is 26m, which means you can aim dead center on a Spire and might miss. At 5 deg it would be 44m - you could aim anywhere on a Galleon's broadside and miss
"Unnoticeable" is a terrible metric because it's difficult to estimate true accuracy. If you're aiming at the lower front of a Pyra at 300m with a Gat and compare 3 deg vs 2.25 deg jitter, you won't notice much difference but in reality the 29% higher jitter increases the jitter radius by 33%. Even a change of 1 in 10 shots that would've hit armor and now hitting components, balloon, or missing is critical. That's unnoticeable from your perspective but very significant
Maybe a base of 3 deg is too long-ranged for some tastes. At 4 deg you've increased the radius at 300m by 78%. At 5 deg it's +122%
Jitter radius = tan (jitter deg) * range
Lumber would be one of the most affected guns by base jitter due to its long effective range of around 500m against the ships its good against. At 500m with 3 deg the jitter radius is 26m, which means you can aim dead center on a Spire and might miss. At 5 deg it would be 44m - you could aim anywhere on a Galleon's broadside and miss
"Unnoticeable" is a terrible metric because it's difficult to estimate true accuracy. If you're aiming at the lower front of a Pyra at 300m with a Gat and compare 3 deg vs 2.25 deg jitter, you won't notice much difference but in reality the 29% higher jitter increases the jitter radius by 33%. Even a change of 1 in 10 shots that would've hit armor and now hitting components, balloon, or missing is critical. That's unnoticeable from your perspective but very significant
Maybe a base of 3 deg is too long-ranged for some tastes. At 4 deg you've increased the radius at 300m by 78%. At 5 deg it's +122%
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Gameplay / Re: The Meta is dead, long live the Meta.
« on: July 20, 2017, 11:07:43 am »
I use Greased exclusively in Hades and Lumber. The only times I bring those guns are with greased because they're so freaking good. Buff engi with spanner mallet buff greased. I'm still as overpowered as ever
Why not set a minimum jitter value for greased: loading greased makes its value at least 3 for example (guns with higher jitter wouldn't be affected and they don't matter anyways). All guns are now jitter limited at further ranges and Gat has 30% increased jitter - a value that was originally generally agreed upon
Why not set a minimum jitter value for greased: loading greased makes its value at least 3 for example (guns with higher jitter wouldn't be affected and they don't matter anyways). All guns are now jitter limited at further ranges and Gat has 30% increased jitter - a value that was originally generally agreed upon