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Achievement system flaw

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knoxi:

--- Quote from: SilentHaven on May 15, 2013, 10:14:04 am ---Please, I really want to hear from a dev on why they make people complete frustrating achievements to make progress in ranks. It is not fun to do and that completely defeats the point of playing a game.

(EDIT): I just wanted to also add that I feel sorry for the people who have to crew with me while I toil away at getting achievements. It can not be very fun for them either..but what choice do I have if I want progress?

--- End quote ---

Erm, you can't rank up, therefore there is no point to playing the game? Yet you really enjoy playing the Spire ... ... ... then play the Spire, as obviously winning is whats important to you, not learning how to win in the various ships that are available. If you cannot learn to use the weapons available and the different attributes on the Goldfish then why should your rank which measures your capabilities across ALL ships go up?

If anything you should be petitioning for ranks to be "ship specific", for those people who only want to use certain vessels. But then you'd simply hit the objection that the game isn't made for the minority of people who have ship preferences, it's made to be played with other people and Role Ranks serve as a way to judge capability across all ships ... no crew wants to find out their rank 10, can only pilot, gun or repair a limited number of ships.

When that arguement failed, you could then try arguing you cannot complete the Goldfish achievements because the ship is bad, or the achievements are too hard. But then you'd hit the objection that this could not be, because many other people have clearly managed it.

Instead you've gone with the argument that the Achievement system is flawed because it stopped someone who couldn't achieve from ranking up. Really...? Because to me that sounds like it's doing a stellar job of accurately maintaining a valid record of a Crewmens overall capability.

I can understand that it would be awesome to have a system that tracked Time spent, or Wins and incremented a statistic to reward people for their dedication or success. But you're trying to suggest that a system which tracks your capability as a Gunner, Pilot and Engineer should not be based on proving that you have certain capabilities to fufill those generic roles - totally defeating the point of role ranks, for the sole purpose of not frustrating you.

I'm sorry, but life is hard, and being good at things is difficult. Don't expect to be rewarded because you can't or don't want to do something.

How bout making a positive suggestion ... like a title system that rewards infamy? Or ship skins based on kills with a given vessel? Or simply describe how the "ROLE RANK" system can be improved without having to make it appease people who just arn't good enough in their roles without relying on a certain ship or a certain setup.

(EDIT:) If you'd had spent the time you had on this thread to instead ask for help and gather a capable crew who could've imparted their experience onto you, you'd probably already have the ranks you're grinding for. You ask what choice you have if you want to progress ... the blunt and simple answer is, "improve".

GrimWinter:
Glad I found this topic before making one of my own! ;)

I personally like the way the leveling system works in this game but some friends of mine dislike it a good bit, so I'm definitely interested in how everyone else feels.

I like that it isn't a linear task of just playing game after game and that you need to do a bit more to gain levels, it makes leveling more interesting and also it gives achievements purpose (I never really found much interest in achievements before). Its good that they encourage people to do different things, the main negative that I see is on the extreme end of that though. People desperately trying to get achievements so they can level can cause some confusion for people playing with them and throw everyone off. A primary example of this was when I played with a gunner that was running around not accomplishing much when our ship was getting much, after the game I learned this was because he had a fire extinguisher for his tool so he could get a multi classing achievement.

Its alright if I know to work around things like that, and most of the other achievements are for the most part ok, but things like that can be a bit painful to deal with when the person trying to get achievements doesn't even say anything about it.

HamsterIV:
SilentHaven why do you want to level up?

Is it for the respect of your crew?
Because if you are a good captain they will respect you after one game regardless of your level.

Is it the awe of others?
Because if you pull amazing maneuvers and carry games you will have that as well.

Is it to be seen as an authority on subject matter?
Well with this one having a high level actually helps. But in the ongoing meta and tactical discussions we have I haven't seen any one "pull rank." Some times we deffer to another player but that is because we have played with them and have seen first hand how much better at this game they are.

Is it to climb the ladder and earn your spot among the top players?
Because GOI doesn't work like that, there is no ELO match making system and our competitive scene doesn't care what level you are.

Is it because you are the type of person who wants to play a game to completion?
Then you should also be the type of person who likes obscure challenges and doing stupid things for the sake of achievements.

This may sound like hypocrisy coming from a lev 8 pilot, but high levels don't matter. Some of us have contemplated starting new accounts so we can have the thrill of scoring multiple achievements in the same match, or bribing muse to artificially lower our levels so new people won't be as scared of us. Enjoy your time as a level 1. It doesn't last very long and as stated earlier you will probably get to level 4 or 5 by accident.

Queso:
All I ever associate with a level is a ton of time spent grinding. It's not my thing so I don't do it, but it gives you challenges if you get a bit bored in your average match.

SilentHaven:
Yes, I knew I would get one of you types who will just simply say. "Welp, you suck, get better."( I mean namely you Knoxi) You did not even look at the entire conversation as a whole, just read my last post with one point and did not even bother to read everything before making a condescending comment. (Did it make you feel good? XD) My whole point you did not bother reading earlier is that the achievement system is only reflecting people who go out of their way to grind, and that is it. Yes I suck at the goldfish apparently and I should improve on that..but why should I have to improve on that right now at the very start before I am allowed to get to the other achievements that I might be much better at and more capable of doing? This is not a reflection of my abilities as a whole at all but my abilities at one single ship. Not being able to do one achievement should not stop me from attempting others to show that I can be a good pilot, gunner, or engineer. This is why I would like to see the achievements opened up to be done in any order so I can go do the achievements I am capable of and be able to do them naturally as I play naturally..without having to go out of my way to try to accomplish them just so I can get to others I want to try. Next time, please try reading a bit more, okay Knoxi? This was never just about me and what I want either, I am not even the one who started this thread XD and I know others must feel the same way.

As for why I even want the ranks. Well there are several reasons. For one I am a completionist, I want to get everything I can in a game, but I would prefer to tackle things naturally first and then once I have a lot of experience at the game then go challenge myself, not be forced to do something I do not want to do from the very start when I am supposed to have options available to me. Second, I like having a good rank to show that people can trust me. This is even more important to me since I love being captain and do not have a mic. A higher rank to some people will give me some measure of their trust if they never played with me before. Also I will have less arguments about who should be captain or not if I had the rank to back up that I can be competent.

Look, some people are acting like I am being entitled or selfish about this. But in the very beginning all I was doing was putting input into what I saw was a mistake that could be easily fixed. I doubt anything might ever really be done about it but I still wanted to at least say something and make what I feel are some good points. Maybe by doing this I can help avoid this problem in the adventure mode which I am looking forward to. I am just making a debate here, so please, stop being condescending about this just because you do not agree with me. Thank you.

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