Suicide - risk/reward option or cheap tactic?

[Sammy B. T.]

So by your standards I should have offered up my slowmo crippled ship to Destructoid as a free kill? Gimmie a break. I'm not giving enemies free kills just because Muse can't patch or fix the game properly.

This would be a valid point if it wasn't for the fact that it would not have been a free kill since Destructoid was the one who put the initial damage on you. Sure destructoid would only need to do about 10% of a kill to get a point but that is because they already did the 90%

[Veyka]

You can never preemptively ban Exploits/glitches like this as who is to say what is a deliberate mechanic and what is a glitch, but in this case it doesn't feel like something that's within the spirit of the game.

I tried it out today while flying a Pyra, and it was easy as pie, and if you got it down, and aimed for a flat bit of ground wouldn't take a moment. (Sorry Smollett et al!)

I don't feel like wading into the ethics of competitive play, but its something that made me feel shitty for doing, and I would support putting on a ban list for future cogs matches (Maybe just say no deliberate suicide? Might be some debate about how deliberate something is, but in practice I think it would be easy to tell if someone killed themselves on purpose).

Also, I don't think anyone was QQ'ing, did you really expect for there not to be a thread on the forums about it if you did it in a cogs match? Eh, what's done is done I suppose.

[Wazulu]

Hmm, I'm mostly replying to Gilder here, as I'm sensing some bad blood, which I don't want at all. My post focused on how it changed the game around- in some ways I admire the trick for its sheer ingenuity and for a one off gamble it was pretty awesome. What I was getting at was this type of gameplay becoming commonplace, as teams could see it as viable.

In short, I bear no judgement on the people involved, but more on the consequences of the action itself for future games. Sorry if I came off heavily damning, it's just I imagined myself in a situation such as that with Paddling or MNS, and in that situation I probably wouldn't have stood for it.

[Ofiach]

I'm sorry but it's about ship flying and tactical planning, not finding a loophole in the system and gaming it.

Maybe it's because I played competitive sports all my life, but I couldn't pull something like that in a competitive situation without feeling dirty. Now if I was flying against friends and wanted to troll them then I would use it and just keep using it over and over.

In a competitive set up that tactic is as bad as wiping paint in paintball.

I'm not going to attack someone personally because hey you did game the system and find a rule loophole and good on ya, now it needs to be fixed.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

QQ all you want but if you go about banning that then how about banning sniper matches entirely? You seem to like aggressive teams but continue to let camper teams rule the matches. Hows that right? Whats more exciting, an engineer battle with sniper teams or a pilot and crew battle with aggressive teams? Battles with actual tactics and ambushing or sitting in one spot pew pewing?

I've known about the trick for a few weeks and have tested it mostly in practice. I've kept the trick as a reserve trump card not planning to use it until facing range battles. But I haven't kept it secret. I've mentioned to many of you the possibility of using it. Now suddenly angry when I do?

So by your standards I should have offered up my slowmo crippled ship to Destructoid as a free kill? Gimmie a break. I'm not giving enemies free kills just because Muse can't patch or fix the game properly. Or just because of your concept of chivalry maybe? For one it did put us at a disadvantage. Specially cause I had no idea if the other team was rushing into the canyon after us. If you notice in the match, they do come in by the time I respawn. Had they rushed in sooner they would have gotten Brick alone or even me in the process of taring myself.

Had there been no slowmo I wouldn't have used it. That is a fact. I told Brick at the time to retreat and that I would use it because it was too much of a liability with 10% hp under those conditions. If you notice I got down that low again thx to slowmo but I didn't pull back and try it once more. Frankly I didn't think it would work a 2nd time if the enemy was wise to it.

You don't like it, fine...thats your problem. I don't regret using it. Any ship in the Cogs running tar can do it. At the very least I hope this raises awareness to it. Change the flow of some of those long drawn out battles. I've never professed to be a chivalrous pilot. I use a lot of tricks, I fight dirty whenever I can, and I'm known to cause teams to rage mid match or desert the lobby after. Don't like that, fine, stick to your stand up fighting...but I'm not. You better have good spotters...thats all I'm gonna say.

No you should have fought to you dying breath. Are you really so self absorbed to think nobody else was in such posittion but you? Do you know how many times in cogs we were doing our best and fighting to the last despite galleon induce slo-mo bug?

Suicide is a cowards way out. And it take away the whole poin of PERMAhull.

[Shinkurex]

Now hold on... I think that this is a very tactical position... This game is heavily strategic, and I'm sure that if any one of us had thought of this first, we would've used it in cogs without hesitation.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

I have thought of a suicide posibility (there is several other ways to do so), but I'd never do so in a competitive match.
Yes I have done suicides in pug matches, when my crew drove me out of my mind. But I'd never do it in a competitive match.

[Malarosa Agresti]

Is there a specific amount of time you have to not be damaged by enemy weapons before you can die without ceding a point?

[Spud Nick]

Did the captain go down with the ship?

[Moriarty]

I have zero problem with what they did, however this clever bit of flying is like (but better) than an clever bit of engineering which is banned for the cogs.

All that really matters is consistency in the rule set.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

This reminds me of all the whiners in bf3/etc who get classes nerfed because they don't like some advantage they have which seems underhanded to them. News flash...life isn't fair, real combat isn't fair. I've sunk over 400hrs in this game. I watch, I learn, and I keep doing it. I constantly keep looking for tricks and tactics that can take down harder opponents. Part on the reason I love the squid. It puts the most pressure on the pilot and crew. If you don't outwit or think, you're dead. You can't be lazy with it.

This isn't a hard trick to counter. Just get off your butts and fight cqc. Or stay butt hurt and cry to muse to get tar changed. Doesn't matter to me if it does eventually. I've made my statement, said my piece. Shown that I will use any tactic to take down my opponent. Which is what other teams should be considering every week. Paddling can be beaten if the rest of you are willing to think outside the box. No one is invincible. 

[Mattilald Anguisad]

News flash squid can easly get away from all other ships. It has speed of 46m/s next fastest shis is goldfish with 32m/s. any half decent squid captain should have no problem running far enoug away from the enemy to be able to suicide safely.

News flash exploits are berma bannable ofences in other games. Even if you didn't know you were yusing an exploit, Blizzard or ArennaNet would still permaban your ass, becouse life isn't fair.

[Moriarty]

Well maybe if we allow it JUST on a squid, I mean squids a pretty awful - if i wasn't a duck i'd name mine 'Captain's Conceit' or perhaps 'High Hubris'

[Brick Hardcastle]

Gilder is taking things very personally at this point and I don't think most of the others are intending it that way. I understand his frustration, but I hope things get dialed back a notch before it gets ugly.

In a competitive game, any tactic that is within the scope of the rules and mechanics can and will be used. Gilder's suicide is no more ludicrous than noble heroes in Dota murdering their own troops to "deny" enemy heroes some gold, and that's an encouraged part of the game because it's an understood part of the well-developed meta. I questioned it at first, but eventually I realized it was like questioning why the queen is dashing out to the front line in chess while her husband stays at home. Interesting point but irrelevant as regards competitive play. It is not a question of the "morality" of Gilder's tactic; it is purely a balance issue (and I'm glad for those here who've tried to discuss it as such). If Gilder's "suicide squid" tactic is deemed to unbalance the game, then it will probably get fixed by Muse or otherwise ruled out by tournament organizers. This is how sports evolve, and GoI is still very young and underdeveloped as a competitive game. At this point, the game is changing on a fundamental level practically every week.

Hopefully one day the rules and mechanics of GoI will "settle" somewhat on a good balance and the tournament teams will be guaranteed stable servers to play on for high-level games. Until then, I just hope we can all just roll with it and keep the game fun and civil.

[Sammy B. T.]

I have no problem with Gilder using the trick from a rules standpoint. It wasn't cheating, thats for sure. However, I would encouragefuture tournaments to discourage this practice.