Easy idea to help lobbies

[Narayan]

Let's decrease the veteran match lvl requirement to 20. I know on the surface it seems low however if you're in a match and some random level 20 joins vs a random lvl 2 with 0 matches it makes you feel a lot better. I also am starting to see a lot of mid level players who seems cool, heck we could even consider lvl 16+. Then start forcing the vet lobby and you would get immediate segregation of noobs and people who can actually play the game.

[Lysanya]

In my opinion, this would segregate the community unfairly and prevent people who want to teach newer players and play with lower level friends from doing so.  Consider the veteran player who buys a copy of the game for a friend and wants to play with them.  Under your plan, it forces the vet into a vet lobby, and the new player is blocked from vet lobbies.  The new player quits in frustration because they can't play with their friend, and the vet gets annoyed that mechanics prevented them from playing together.

Also, level means nothing in terms of skill.  It merely denotes experience.  If a level 20 engineer, who has done nothing but spanner/ext/chem and heatsink ammo "because it works" (I'm sure we all have stories like this) is forced into vet lobbies, it'll merely kick the can for 20 levels, not solve the core problem of the pub stack itself.

I've agreed with you many times that stacks against newbies are bad for this game, but I disagree with that solution and offer a counter: Force premades with more than a certain percentage of vets on it (for argument's sake right now, let's say more than 1 per ship) into vet lobbies, and then force custom lobbies with that same certain percentage of vets in it before hitting the recruit from queue button into vet lobbies to close a loophole.  Also, block vets from stacking a single ship (must maintain the 1 vet per ship rule) after the recruit button is hit to close another loophole.  Solo queue, custom lobbies that don't recruit from queue, and Alliance PvE are excluded from this.

If this were to happen, here's what I'd expect to be the in-game response:

+ Custom lobbies would become the norm amongst vets, and less novice and casual players would be forced into stacks.
+ Clans as a means of social interaction, teaching the game, playing the game together, etc would get a slight boost, as a result of the above point.
+ Global chat and interaction amongst players would increase to fill custom lobbies.  Most of us are social anyway.  Might as well put it to good use, right?
+ Solo queue players would be less likely to be stomped, as it eases the burden on matchmaker.
- Some unsocial clans or clans/premades without many contacts would get frustrated with their newfound inability to find lobbies, or perhaps become the new inefficiency of this matchmaker and be the new stomp target.
- Communicating the 1 vet per ship rule to casual veteran players who don't read patch notes could be a problem.
- Part of the community would have to be educated in regards to custom lobbies.
- It would further hinder movement in pub lobbies.

Edit: I forgot one other idea in conjunction with this: reduce the base lobby timer to 3 minutes, with only one 30 second "add time" per team.

[Narayan]

Yea I mean force the mm people into vet lobbies you can still play regular thru the match browser.  Mixed formations would go to regular game. I don't think sending everyone to the vet lobby would work, if someone dropped mm would put a rando lvl 3 in to replace the one you lost. This plan if everyone is above the lvl 16 threshold would send them all to vet from crew form. Quit saying levels don't matter, if it's level 1 or 2 it matters. Hell as one of the few active ca's on your ship should be all noobs so you would always go to normal games. This does need to happen you need to quit pushing training off on non CA's that don't want it. This is a fix for the broken novice matches.

[Daft Loon]

It would make more sense to raise the novice graduation level to 16 than to drop the vet match level that far, 20 might be good though.

There is another option that would help: Matchmaker should try to place novices into running novice matches before prompting them to disable novice to find a match faster.

Also some good news - Muse is working on AI opponents for novice matches in skirmish mode so they may soon be hidden away happily blasting bots out of the sky. Unless Muse screws it up in the following way:
-Make it so easy that nothing is learned (not happening by default at least, the current version is way too hard for novices)
-Make it level people out of novice really fast
-Not include any way for players past novice to access bot matches for practice/ to avoid stacks or matchmaker, or hide it behind far too many buttons, options etc for most people to find it.

...

Edit: I forgot one other idea in conjunction with this: reduce the base lobby timer to 3 minutes, with only one 30 second "add time" per team.

I would go further than that, 30s map vote, 60s timer after that, 3x 20s add time per ship (refreshed if everyone adds time in-case the lobby is actually full of lobbies of icarus fans), can only add time between 40s and 3s remaining (or thereabouts), remove the ready up button entirely to silence the choir/ because it would be redundant - to ready up don't add time.

[Narayan]

Sure raise novice graduation to 16 i don't care just do something.....

[Hoja Lateralus]

Let's decrease the veteran match lvl requirement to 20. (...) heck we could even consider lvl 16+.

NO GOD PLEASE NO

Force premades with more than a certain percentage of vets on it (for argument's sake right now, let's say more than 1 per ship) into vet lobbies, and then force custom lobbies with that same certain percentage of vets in it before hitting the recruit from queue button into vet lobbies to close a loophole.  Also, block vets from stacking a single ship (must maintain the 1 vet per ship rule) after the recruit button is hit to close another loophole.  Solo queue, custom lobbies that don't recruit from queue, and Alliance PvE are excluded from this.

So basically you're saying that vets can't play the game now? Because all sane people crewform together, because a) game forces them too and b) they want to play with their friends.
How to fix goio? Let's piss off the vets. Kick them in the nuts until they leave, those bastards. Yeah, that's helpful.
When you think about it - it's BONKERS. This is basically totalitarian way of implementing the idea of a fluffy cuddly helpful vet. Bottom line? Not gonna happen.
When you think of it it's horryfyingly beautiful, let's turn "vet games" into the nightmare of having 3 non-veteran players on the ship. DID I SAY IT'S BONKERS AND TERRIBLE NIGHTMARE?! I MEAN WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, HAS GOD FORSAKEN US ALL?

I do realise you wrote 'more than' but still, if by some horrible mistake I decide to solo queue as a vet I don't want to be thrown into a ship with 3 level-what-so-evers who I'll have to babysit. What's the point of 'vet game' then? Also the part about blocking vets from stacking on one ship triggered me, hence the rant.

(why am I doing this to myself...?)

There is another option that would help: Matchmaker should try to place novices into running novice matches before prompting them to disable novice to find a match faster.

This is a thing?
Why is this a thing?
MUUUUUUUUUUUUSE!

[Narayan]

Well disaster what would you rather have a rando lvl20 or rando lvl1?

[Lysanya]

Yea I mean force the mm people into vet lobbies you can still play regular thru the match browser.  Mixed formations would go to regular game. I don't think sending everyone to the vet lobby would work, if someone dropped mm would put a rando lvl 3 in to replace the one you lost. This plan if everyone is above the lvl 16 threshold would send them all to vet from crew form.

I still strongly disagree with this idea for the reasons I listed above.  In my opinion, it unfairly segregates the population of this game.

Quit saying levels don't matter, if it's level 1 or 2 it matters.

Dev games match #3 yesterday would directly refuse your statement.  A level 1 gunner went ham on Bubbles's spire after Atruejedi spent a few minutes with him teaching him what to do.

Hell as one of the few active ca's on your ship should be all noobs so you would always go to normal games. This does need to happen you need to quit pushing training off on non CA's that don't want it. This is a fix for the broken novice matches.

Your OP is about forcing vet lobbies, not novice lobbies.  And no one is forcing you to teach.  I said clans would become a greater source of teaching and interaction as a result of the idea I posted, not that they would be forced to do so.  There is a difference between the two.

It would make more sense to raise the novice graduation level to 16 than to drop the vet match level that far, 20 might be good though.

There is another option that would help: Matchmaker should try to place novices into running novice matches before prompting them to disable novice to find a match faster.

This is a possibility, but I still think we'll see a lot of new players opt out of novice queue, even with this.  But more choice is also good here.

I would go further than that, 30s map vote, 60s timer after that, 3x 20s add time per ship (refreshed if everyone adds time in-case the lobby is actually full of lobbies of icarus fans), can only add time between 40s and 3s remaining (or thereabouts), remove the ready up button entirely to silence the choir/ because it would be redundant - to ready up don't add time.

I think allowing a full minute per ship could also cause problems.  Maybe something like, 30 second map timer, 90 second lobby timer, and both teams are allowed two 30 second "add time" buttons, regardless of the number of ships in the lobby.  This would cut lobby timers down to a guaranteed 2-4 minutes once pilots load in, and the only way the timer resets is to 30 seconds if a new pilot (not the same pilot that just left the spot) loads in.  If people want more than 4 minutes for socialization, custom lobbies can help fill that void.

[Narayan]

I bet if that gunner had been engie instead Jedi would have lost lol. You keep throwing out this idea of the magical noob who listens and has voice comm and paid attention in the tutorial, with a dash of natural skill, I don't get those on my ship most of the time, obviously this guy had some idea what was going on if he could figure out how to join the match, unless you guys were so short you had to open it up to queue again. 

Yes Lysana of corse the level 1 was a gunner because if he will talk to you, and seems like he will fire the gun that's where he can do the least amount of damage. Would you let a lvl 1 main deck for you in a dev match Lysana? No of course you wouldn't so quit talking out your ass and saying levels don't matter because they do.

I offered to fight you one on one and you refused. Then at the end Of the match you dipped after the shuffle and wouldn't play the match with the noob ally's. Your reason if I remember correctly was that you were teasing potential clan memebers, tho I don't know how that stomp was a fair test of anything. You ship stack with sass, you choose your matches carefully, and you are a giant hypocrite.
As far as clans training how many brand new players have you picked up in sass in the last week? I know rydr and clan haven't taken in many and they are some of our best players with the most to teach. The only clan I see regularly picking up new players is grox and their training program is shall we say, less than stellar.

This is a serious question are you on drugs Lysana? Something seems wrong with the way got brain works and what you say on the forums. You say you don't like stomping noobs but I've been on the wrong side of a stack against you and you went full try hard and focused me with your ally in vip. Your ca you didn't take the hit and play with the noobs you passed it to me. That noob ship by the way and I'm sure you remember them were the ones that said tamzin had a shitty asshole, wouldn't help or listen to anything. Don't forget that's what many of the noobs are like and that's the ones I got stuck with when you stomped me. I'm not gonna keep playing this game if that's the matches I'm going to get, and I'm not gonna have a serious conversation with you on this subject or any other until you recognize we do have many bad noobs in this game.

You stomped me that match even tho I offered to 1v1 you to make it fair, and you wouldn't play the rematch. You stack your ships and pick your fights just like the people you criticize so quit being a hypocrite.

[nanoduckling]

In practice how is this different from raising the novice cap to level 16 or 20 and making it mandatory? How many players above and below level 16 / 20 are online at any given time of the day?

[GurasOguras]

The game is dead. If not the low player base we would have balanced lobbies with players playing against their own skill, but unfortunately we can't get them because of not enough people in the matchmaking queue. Vets are picky and they only want to play with their friends and only when they can play as their favourite class. There is no way to balance the game with 70-100 players in it. And it doesn't matter if there are vet lobbies out there or not since these don't even happen at all when there are not enough players. usually when good players play against each other lobbies are still normal, not vet.

Also: lv 20 is still a piece of crap compared to lv 45 because usually, those players have several thousand matches compared to around 300 for lv 20.


And what about noobs? Nothing. There is nothing that can be done. Many players don't even understand English tutorials and don't understand people speaking to then. Maybe game localization would help that, but muse budget won't allow this to happen. Only those who are eager to communicate and will find a teacher who will explain to them all theory may have a chance. The tutorial doesn't explain all damage types and guns. It also does not introduce a player to what ammo should be loaded for what gun and why it is so important to stay on your position and care only for components you are responsible for. I know these things are learned later in the game, but some people simply don't pick them up as they have problems with the language barrier, cannot get it why they mustn't do certain things (Why would my captain or the game forbid me anything! So far I've been playing like that with my previous noob captain and he didn't want that from me. I know better! - actual situation that happened to me) or for some other reason unknown to me.

I was lucky when being introduced to the game as my good friend Roland told me about the entire theory. But the thing that today's noobs don't have and what I had is a motivation to become like my high-level Ryder friend, and because I did know how the game looks like on a competitive level since my very early days in it. On the other hand, noobs don't know today about how the good game should look like and why should they improve. Only a few determined to look out for tutorials and read wiki have a chance to become high-level veterans.

The only way for a player to stop being noob it's his desire. A desire to stop being worthless and "git gud". There is no way to help them - they only can help themselves.

[Narayan]

I'm sticking by my guns let's lower the veteran match requirement to 20 if nothing else so at least my vet lobby can get reinforced by match maker. A level 20 regardless of what you think his skill is vs 45 is not going to skew a lobby as much as a lvl 2 with 0 matches played. This addition due to the low player base might actually make a vet lobby not only viable but sustainable.

[Lysanya]

This is a serious question are you on drugs Lysana? Something seems wrong with the way got brain works and what you say on the forums.

Please refer to section 2 of the code of conduct.  Comments like these, as well as other comments you've made directly to me, are completely uncalled for.  Let's keep this on-topic, shall we?

[Keyvias]

Hey Guys,

I completely understand having a heated debate, but just wanted to step in and humbly request we keep everything cool here.

We all have unique ideas, but lets discuss topics not people.

Thanks everyone!

[Narayan]

i didn't think you would have a real response for your behavior ingame lysana. Hey admin where were you when I was getting flamed on my free to play topic?