Main > General Discussion

How would YOU nerf the Mobula?

<< < (6/15) > >>

nanoduckling:
How would I nerf the mobula? Well if I have to nerf rather than buff other underused parts and ships I'd add two big hull strips that wrap around the balloon on the edges so that you can gat / mortar or gat / banshee or hades / flak or hades / art that son of a biscuit more effectively from below.

The problem with the mob is that a smart pilot has way to many ways to kill you while avoiding getting killed themselves. Cant use a heavy carro because double light carro or carro mine counters it due to mob vertical mobility, and mob will usually kill you before you effectively blend it. Cant hwacha or art it because of wide separation of components. Cant meta it because good luck getting on top of a top tier mobula pilot so your gunner has a shot at the hull. Even if you could they have three light guns, you have at best two (or three if you are a junker but good luck being in position first), gg hasta-la-pasta.

So what we need is an interesting way to make a mobula easier to kill. We could decrease its hull. That will work. We could change the layout of the guns or reduce the number of guns. Both of these are options but they take away interesting viable strategies. I like the idea of reducing the viability of the balloon, better vertical mobility but don't scratch that thing or you can kiss that advantage goodbye, but that makes it an odd exception.

The question I ask is, was the mobula ever intended to be borderline invulnerable when it is above you? If not, then give me some way to kill that thing from beneath.

Mean Machine:

--- Quote from: Newbluud on March 16, 2016, 11:20:55 am ---Thanks for the input, Mean, but I feel you're trailing off on a point that I actually address in that first post. The title of the thread is misleading, but it keeps the conversation centered where it should be. If you read what I have said, you'll note that I am in favour of buffing other ships and playstyles to combat the over-saturation and ridiculous versatility of the metamob build. I also never acted as if the metamob is unkillable. The problem is, it's a direct upgrade from so many other builds. Two pilots with equal skill with crews of equal skill; whichever is using the metamob is going to win. That is a problem.

I also hate stacks, but that is not what this thread is about. I also feel that more balanced lobbies would highlight the strength of the metamob even more, assuming balance is settled at mid to high level. At a lower level, blitz-centric ships seem to be extremely powerful because newer pilots do not know how to avoid getting caught out.

Let me state again, because I've seen several people TL;DR the shit out of me and argue against a statistical nerf I never called for: I feel the best nerf to the Mobula is a buff to other ships.

--- End quote ---


Yeah, sorry I could have worded and formulated my post better. Only first sentence was meant to you directly, the rest was just talking in general, because I know people usually ask for nerfs, not for buffs. And even in first sentence I just wanted to say that I disagree with that particular idea in general, not with your entire post.

"Two pilots with equal skill with crews of equal skill; whichever is using the metamob is going to win" I'm not sure I'd go that far with this. This depends on a lot of factors. If this is 1v1 fight, then yes, usually mobula should win, but not alway by far (I'll give one example below). 2v2 is however totally different situation and is also what game is arguably balanced around, so the result would differ a lot. Let's take one example: "2v2, red team with 2x meta mobula, blue team with 1x meta mobula + 1x kill squid - both team equally skilled, map:canyon ambush." I'd say blue team will have advantage, even tho they have only one OP mobula on their side. Squid will make all the difference there. Mobula sure has ability to fight at all ranges, but it's not equally effective at all ranges. It can't possibly track and effectively damage and kill squid in close combat, while squid can do that, unless squid does something wrong. that's just one example. Metamob could struggle in duel at dawn as well, or especially in paritan. No one, no matter how skilled pilot you are, you won't convince me that you can fly mobula with same effectivness as you can in maps like fjords or dunes for example. Even if you don't hit any buildings by accident, you just don't have the same amount of space to dodge and escape as you have in other maps. The map itself restricts your effectivness. Not to mention the fact that as a metamobula you don't benefit from taking cover and waiting for ambush in paritan as some other ships and builds would.

So, the only scenario where I would definetly agree that metamobula would probably always win in 1v1 equal fight is open long range engagements. All other scenarios immediately drop effectivness of mobula, some more then others. Of course I'm not saying it would suck in all other scenarios, it's still strong in many of them, but I'm saying that in many of those scenarios there are other ships that can perform as effective as mobula or even better. So, if we agree to that, then we can say that metamobula is only OP in open long range engagements. But now, is it really? I mean, is it really Op if it's the best ship for long range engagements? Or is that just the fact that it was maybe suppose to be just that and that someone has to fill that role. If there would be no mobula, then that would be galleon. If not galleon, then spire or whatever. Someone has to be. I doubt anyone could possibly balance two different ships to be exactly equally effective in same situation.

I don't know, maybe it's just me and my perception or definition of what OP means to me, but I think gamers today in general are jumping to conclusions way to fast and are in general way more competitive and agrressive and can't take a loss or being beaten by others (not talking about you, Newbluud, of course, just in general what we can see in online games). Take for example any fps game out there. "OP gun here, OP gun there". Everything that kills you is OP. Maybe it's a fact that there are so many very young players in gaming today. I think 20 years ago there weren't so many kiddies that even had PC, let alone play these games and communities were a little bit different. Today, you're born and your first gift is cellphone and few years after that here you go, PC. Anyway, I'm getting of topic here, I just don't feel what some poeple are saying, not jsut about mobula, but in general. I think game is fairly balanced atm and biggest issue are lobbies like I mentioned in ym first post.




--- Quote from: DrTentacles on March 16, 2016, 11:45:24 am ---Mobula is OP, considering it does everything that the Junker does better.

When one ship is *the* best long-range ship in the game, without question, and better than all but 2 close-range, maybe you should give balance a look?

To the post above, Mobula wasn't OP when Pyra was dominant, because Pyramideon sniping was viable, and because neither Carronade nor Flamer hadn't been nerfed. It was still a very powerful ship that got taken to Hephaestus finals--definitely high-tier, but it had competition. Now, it's a safe choice for basically any team comp. There is no place where you go "no, taking a mob is a bad idea."

The Pyra's nerf made "head on killship" style play pretty damn hard. The Mobula laughs at Hwatchafish, but it much weaker to gat-mortar, and the Pyra back then could keep it in arcs effectively. It can't do that anymore.

Can you say that about any other ship in the game?

Other ships need buffs. Heavy Weapons need buffs. The game's balance is fucked, yo. But you can only evaluate a ship's power in the context of the meta, and in this meta, the Mob is definitely OP.

--- End quote ---

Again, just because performs well in many situations doesn't necessarily means it's OP, not in a sense that you should go and nerf it. Remember, pyramidion was also considered OP and what's with it now? Are you sure you want to ask for nerfs again? Mobula is fine, buff other ships. You said it yourself, pyra can't keep up anymore. Yes, but pyra can't keep up with a lot of ships anymore, which means it's pyras' problem, not mobulas'. Give pyra some speed back and it will be good close range ship again and effective against mobula and others hips as well.

Letus:
I'd get a Lumberfish and keep it out of the range of the Artemis...one balloon pop and those guns can't hit you :V

Otherwise, I'd reduce the turning speed.  Only one of those engines (the one on top) actually is in a spot to grab air, the two turners have this thing called a Mobula infront of them, making for terrible airflow, meaning they'd have to work harder to turn the ship.

And then I'd [redacted]

HamsterIV:
The Mobula works in the same space as the Spire. It brings 3+ guns on a forward facing target, but its repair points are far enough away from the guns that the crew is forced to decide between repairing and shooting. It is superior to the Spire in that the Mobula's horizontal profile vs the Spire's vertical profile is not as vulnerable to long range high damage shot drop weapons (hadies, lumberjack, flacks).

If I were to nerf the Mobula I would increase the damage output of long range non shot drop weapons like the banshee. I would also move the repair points further away from the guns. The effect would be to increase both the frequency that components catch fire at range and how long gungineers are spending engineering instead of gunning.

Newbluud:

--- Quote from: HamsterIV on March 16, 2016, 01:02:10 pm ---The Mobula works in the same space as the Spire. It brings 3+ guns on a forward facing target, but its repair points are far enough away from the guns that the crew is forced to decide between repairing and shooting. It is superior to the Spire in that the Mobula's horizontal profile vs the Spire's vertical profile is not as vulnerable to long range high damage shot drop weapons (hadies, lumberjack, flacks).

If I were to nerf the Mobula I would increase the damage output of long range non shot drop weapons like the banshee. I would also move the repair points further away from the guns. The effect would be to increase both the frequency that components catch fire at range and how long gungineers are spending engineering instead of gunning.

--- End quote ---
I like this one. Probably because I like the banshee.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page