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How would YOU nerf the Mobula?

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Newbluud:

--- Quote from: Solidusbucket on March 16, 2016, 07:55:30 am ---I said it before and ill say it again.

I feel like all ships are balanced minus spire and pyra which need armor and accelation buffs.

I dont feel like mobula is op. Its tough but the damn things sucks as soon as you shoot at it.

My opinion.

--- End quote ---
Pyra and Spire need attention way more than the Mobula, and I said myself that I'd prefer to see changes to other things to shake up this boring-as-hell current meta rather than a straight up numerical nerf to the Mobula.

In all honesty, it's just the one Mobula build that infests the game like a fungus between an old dude's toes that I feel is overpowered. Disable enough to lock down a ship entirely, power enough to kill quickly, very specific approach angles that might provide an advantage, but the dumb-as-fuck verticals might as well make that favourable engage a coin flip as to whether you will kill the ship in time.

My biggest problem with it, however, is how painfully unfun it is at this stage. I know that is subjective and I can't hide my biases here. I'm just so bloody sick of seeing them. When 75% of the ships in a single match are Mobulas and Mobulas make up just over 14% of the available choices, with infinitely more if you narrow those Mobs down to the overused meta build, then you kind of see where the power is sitting. And considering how seeing three quarters of the ships in a game being the same thing with only tiny variations is not even remotely surprising, it kind of shows how polarised the metagame has become.

In its current state, that single Mobula build is overpowered, but likely as a result of aggressive nerfs to everything else in the past.

Kamoba:
Mobula nerf in dev app is pointless and a waste of time.

The only thing I would change to mobula, is possibly a tweak in its hull numbers to lower it a bit, so it becomes a scary thing to loose armour, if the vertical Dodge fails, so would the mobula, but in this current state the mobula has ample tanking abilities to be able to afford mistakes...

The balance changes needed compared to the ones proposed are vastly different...

Small tweaks to everything.. And rather than screw the hwacha to a newbie crews worst fucking nightmare, I'd rather see a state on the thing changed...

Balance changes over gameplay changes...

Mobula OP?
Nerf it's perma-hull a little (Little!)

Pyramidion UP?
Buff it's perma-hull or turning speed a little (Little!)

Hwacha OP?
Nerf it's jitter reduction a bit. (Or just revert all the changes to heavy ammo, Carronades and hwacha!)

Heavy flak Under Used?
Realise that it is the Hwacha dominance that's killing the use of Flak! Why use flak when you can use "LION GUN, FUCK YEAH!")

Also I agree with Newbluud..
Matches these days fall into three types..

Vets using what ship and weapons they want against other vets of a like mind. (Rare, hard to find lobbies, but the most fun.)

Vets stacking the fuck out of the game either with custom no scramble lobbies or switching sides with new pilots, using Mobula, unless someone takes a squid then they go squid. (I won't name the clan who do those, but they might want to watch the fucking salt and shit talk they throw at people when they stomp a level five flying with 7 novice players, fuckers.)

Mixed lobbies of vets and newbies, the vets hard countering any chance they get and a lot of rematch votes, if there happens to be three vet ships in a 2v2 lobby it often turns into games of " pass the newbie, suck up the loss." This lobby you see mostly Pyramidions from the newbies (because the guides are all outdated now, pyra is no longer a great ship.) Or they use Hwachafish.

It's the stacking vets which is why I play less often. I will rant about them, I will hate the specific fuckers who do it, for one reason, their salt and shit talk. It is not skill to win a fucking stomp.

#endofrant.

Mean Machine:
Newbluud, to answer your first post or question, I believe this is not a proper or valid reason to nerf a ship. I'm personally sick of quad hwacha galleons and double gat hwacha spires for example, but I don't think they are op. They are however very frustrating. Now I bet everyone can jump in here and start enlightening us on how quad hwacha galleons are easy to fight and are no big deal, but that's not the case I see everytime I play the game lately. Yes, you won't see these kind of galleons in comeptetive, but outside competitive I had to fight a lot of them and usually we have a lot of troubles with them, since not all of us play all our matches stacked with all 45 level clanmates while rolling with metabuilds. So in this case, I usually have to deal with not experienced crewmates or even worse, the ones who can't possibly bother using any kind of communication IN A MULTIPLAYER HEAVILY TEAMWORK BASED PVP GAME! Even I as 45 pilot had problems with quad hwacha galleons quite a few times, because, you know, I have low level crew and poor ally and we're fighting mid to high level enemy team, but oh no that's not enough that we are underdog by far, enemy also decides to bring quad hwacha galleon in KotH JUST IN CASE right? I have to cringe everytime when obviously superior team feels the need to make already unbalanced lobby even worse by taking very strong builds that their skilled crew can easily manage, while low level team are pretty much stuck with gatlings and flamethrowers in order to get at least few hits before they get annihilated.

So considering all that, my opinion is that this game is unbalanced only because matches and lobbies themselves are unbalanced. I never felt, even in competitive matches, that any of the ships or builds are op. You can always find ship and build that can deal with whatever enemy has. The rest is up to piloting, positioning, coordination and your crew abilities.

I agree with Geo and Byron, trying to balance things with non stop nerfs is what broke and consumed fun of a lot of games for me. It's just not the right way. In this case, I don't think that we should try to nerf the ship just because of that one powerfull builld or even just weapon. How come mobula was not OP when pyra dominated skies? So with pyra out of the picture mob is suddenly OP? We nerf mobuula, then what? Squid is OP? Nerf squid, then fish is OP? And so on. Do you see where this is going? Everyone who has played at least couple of online games knows by now that there is always one or few builds, classes, ships, weapons or whatever that are considered "the best". That's how it is and always will be, because you will never balance ships or weapons or whatever to the point that they would all be absolutely equal. How could you? What could exactly determine how effective or powerfull is particular ship in comparison to others. There is just no way to balance stuff to the point that everyone would be happy. There will always be people who will complain about something. Let's say someone loves spire and wants to fly it non stop, but they are getting wrecked by mobula. Does that mean that mobula is op or just that spire is simply not a good solution against mobula, just like all other ships are not the best solution in every match and every situation. Even "op mobula" is weak against squid for example if squid knows what they are doing. So these ships that are effective in a lot of situations and maps are op? How about they are balanced and fun, while other ships that are barely used anywhere are "underpowered" and needs buff, so they would get used too? Or do we want to nerf everything so at the end we will have lobbies of icarus not because of deciding what ships would be more effective in certain match, but instead which one would suck lees because we nerfed everything?

So in short, what I'm trying to say here is that in my opinion we need more buffs than nerfs and that when it comes to balancing of the game, tha main issue I see are not ships or weapons themselves, but the fact that majority of matches are simply not balanced at all, which is a result of a lot of factors that I won't go into now, because some of them were already discussed and others are just not my expertise and it's not a topic for this thread.

Newbluud:
Thanks for the input, Mean, but I feel you're trailing off on a point that I actually address in that first post. The title of the thread is misleading, but it keeps the conversation centered where it should be. If you read what I have said, you'll note that I am in favour of buffing other ships and playstyles to combat the over-saturation and ridiculous versatility of the metamob build. I also never acted as if the metamob is unkillable. The problem is, it's a direct upgrade from so many other builds. Two pilots with equal skill with crews of equal skill; whichever is using the metamob is going to win. That is a problem.

I also hate stacks, but that is not what this thread is about. I also feel that more balanced lobbies would highlight the strength of the metamob even more, assuming balance is settled at mid to high level. At a lower level, blitz-centric ships seem to be extremely powerful because newer pilots do not know how to avoid getting caught out.

Let me state again, because I've seen several people TL;DR the shit out of me and argue against a statistical nerf I never called for: I feel the best nerf to the Mobula is a buff to other ships.

DrTentacles:
Mobula is OP, considering it does everything that the Junker does better.

When one ship is *the* best long-range ship in the game, without question, and better than all but 2 close-range, maybe you should give balance a look?

To the post above, Mobula wasn't OP when Pyra was dominant, because Pyramideon sniping was viable, and because neither Carronade nor Flamer hadn't been nerfed. It was still a very powerful ship that got taken to Hephaestus finals--definitely high-tier, but it had competition. Now, it's a safe choice for basically any team comp. There is no place where you go "no, taking a mob is a bad idea."

The Pyra's nerf made "head on killship" style play pretty damn hard. The Mobula laughs at Hwatchafish, but it much weaker to gat-mortar, and the Pyra back then could keep it in arcs effectively. It can't do that anymore.

Can you say that about any other ship in the game?

Other ships need buffs. Heavy Weapons need buffs. The game's balance is fucked, yo. But you can only evaluate a ship's power in the context of the meta, and in this meta, the Mob is definitely OP.

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