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Suggestions for the Mobula and Junker

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BlackenedPies:
He means current junker, which is vulnerable to disable and resistant to kill. Getting popped is bad because it's mostly balloon, and it has a vulnerable component cluster that's easy to hit with artemis or break everything with hwatcha.

Daft Loon:
I've essentially never felt unreasonably countered by anything outside 2 categories
-Moving backwards too fast - Lumberjack, Artemis
-Not the junker that's the problem - Old H.Carronade, Current Hwacha

MightyKeb:

--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 22, 2015, 05:13:32 pm ---Please no.

Take away my brawl mobula and i will hunt you for the rest of days. More seriously the problem is that people can take a boring merc/hades + double artemis mobula and then add carro-flamer or gat-mortar as well for defence. Crippling it at close range will only force people more into the boring use of the mobula. Dialing back the hwacha and carronade changes 50% would put the mobula in the right place.


--- End quote ---

Yes, let's not presumably "take away" the brawl mobula's oh-so-essential turning speed as it clearly doesn't have anything else *cough* verticals *cough* ridicilously fast kills *cough* going for it. At the same time, let's keep the mobula the way it is so the "boring hades art art" is even easier to play.


At the very least the turning speed nerf makes mobula quite counterable by manouverable ships, it is -MEANT- to be laterally weak. What do you think you have the verticals for?


Aside from making mobula actually balanced, the turning speed nerf may encourage the use of Phoenix Claw on mobula, to the point where it may be a necessity unfortunately. However, this works in the favor of game balance, because then you have several options:

Either sacrifice hydro, aka the ability to shoot up into space whenever you're in trouble, or drouge chute, and make the mobula's balloon an actual weakness again. Or just have both but get circled to death by squids.


Though I think the turning speed nerf should be made so to match the claw's benefits. 7.02 deg/s is -100% of 14.02 deg/s. Claw provides +50% engine thrust. You could simply nerf it down to 10.02/10.52 deg/s and it would make a noticable, though not outrageous difference, and if you wanted the old speed you could just use claw and Daniel would never laugh at any aspiring mobula pilot for using it again.

DrTentacles:
This is absolutely ridiculous.

We are at the point of GoI where we're talking about nerfing the mobula. Pack it up. Just...pack it up, guys. We've had a good run. This is where a year of nerfs, clans falling apart, and competitive instability has taken us.

For the record, I'm not angry, and I don't think it's a inherently bad suggestion. Just an unnecessarily one, and hilarious if you look at the ship trends in competitive of the past year.

In seriousness, Mobula is not OP, junker could maybe use a overhaul, but it's problem is more fundamentally tied to it's giant balloon, and this seems like a giant problem of people getting complacent in their strategies and not experimenting. We're at a more diverse point in the meta than I've seen it in a long time. There are some problems. The Mobula isn't really one of them. Most of the problems in the meta tie to the paradigm of weapon roles that we currently have. 

And I don't think you can make the Junker more competitive by playing with it's stats. It's a ship that's viability is more tied to the weapons that dominate the meta than it's own effectiveness. Increasing the speed still leaves it with a giant, exposed balloon. There is nothing that is going to make the balloon less giant, or less exposed, and a speed ship without a balloon is even more dead than a slow ship without a balloon.

(Also, Galleon and Pyramideon are in way, way worse places than Junkers, or Mobulas.)

Byron Cavendish:
I actually love where the galleon is at. It won't win against every ship or build, but it can hold it's own pretty well and I think its way better off than the junker. Like you said, the meta of the guns determines the strength or the weakness. The galleon and junker are very similar in design, crew strategy and fighting style, which is why I switched from junker to galleon. Because heavy guns are slightly stronger right now, the galleon is just better off than the junker.

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