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Suggestions for the Mobula and Junker
BlackenedPies:
Spanner doesn't rebuild that much faster and it's the pilot's job to repair balloon. When the engis are shooting you work on the balloon.
Lieutenant Noir:
Ugh being sick is horrible, can't get anything done
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 25, 2015, 06:48:51 pm ---After playing what was possibly the most one sided massacre i have ever participated in flying a well buffed junker I'm developing a suspicion that fast junker would be one of the most OP things ever to be included into the game. More experienced opponents might have been able to keep up but this was only the result of the buffkit, I dread to think of stat buff + buffkit.
--- End quote ---
Do keep in mind that I wanted to make the Fast Junker have sh*t armor.
Basically if a pilot didn't outmaneuver enough, it would be eaten alive by a single Gat-Banshee/ Hwatcha/ Artemis/ Lumberjack/ etc
p:
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 25, 2015, 06:48:51 pm ---As an aside how do people prefer to run buffs on their junker? I'm thinking of running buff engineer 'gunner' for the hull and main engine and pilot buff for the balloon.
--- End quote ---
Back when I used to play seriously and have a Mic,
-I used to run double buffs on Bottom and Top Deck w/ Main kit on hull
-As a Pilot I would bring a wrench because I tended to accidentally miss time a rebuild for a repair with a spanner on Junker balloon more often
-Also I kinda liked to be able to repair because I wanted engis on guns being buffed/shooting constantly (that was hard to do with a damaged balloon while enemies were dropping only just below arcs).
-I also tended to find that it wasn't that far of a distance for the Bottom Deck Engi to reach the hull (Would just top up buff on hull -> run down and Top up buff on gun).
-I've seen some guys replace the Main kit on Hull for Main kit Buff but I just like the consistency and safety of a good old Main Kit
-Didn't even want a 24/7 Buffed Trifecta anyway 3_3
Daft Loon:
--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 28, 2015, 08:25:18 am ---
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 25, 2015, 06:48:51 pm ---After playing what was possibly the most one sided massacre i have ever participated in flying a well buffed junker I'm developing a suspicion that fast junker would be one of the most OP things ever to be included into the game. More experienced opponents might have been able to keep up but this was only the result of the buffkit, I dread to think of stat buff + buffkit.
--- End quote ---
Do keep in mind that I wanted to make the Fast Junker have sh*t armor.
Basically if a pilot didn't outmaneuver enough, it would be eaten alive by a single Gat-Banshee/ Hwatcha/ Artemis/ Lumberjack/ etc
p:
--- End quote ---
Problem is if it can move fast enough to avoid arcs it can bring a gat-mortar side into arc far too easily and unlike the squid has no need to maneuver between the two gun arcs and can bring another 3 guns worth of options.
Lieutenant Noir:
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 28, 2015, 03:32:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 28, 2015, 08:25:18 am ---
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 25, 2015, 06:48:51 pm ---After playing what was possibly the most one sided massacre i have ever participated in flying a well buffed junker I'm developing a suspicion that fast junker would be one of the most OP things ever to be included into the game. More experienced opponents might have been able to keep up but this was only the result of the buffkit, I dread to think of stat buff + buffkit.
--- End quote ---
Do keep in mind that I wanted to make the Fast Junker have sh*t armor.
Basically if a pilot didn't outmaneuver enough, it would be eaten alive by a single Gat-Banshee/ Hwatcha/ Artemis/ Lumberjack/ etc
p:
--- End quote ---
Problem is if it can move fast enough to avoid arcs it can bring a gat-mortar side into arc far too easily and unlike the squid has no need to maneuver between the two gun arcs and can bring another 3 guns worth of options.
--- End quote ---
How maneuverability are we talking here? :-\
-The reason the Squid can outmaneuver/Avoid Arcs so easily is because of the combination of high Turning/Forward/Vertical (Not that much) acceleration
Another aspect is that the Squid has high Top speed and so will be more able to get in close range engagements
-The Squid is like an Acceleration God. With the Junker you would still to an extent be more reliant on firepower rather than maneuverability but it would have that High Top speed to be in situations where you would be able to Brawl quicker.
-If you were to compare maneuverability, it would be similar to a Goldfish and how the Goldfish deals with this is that it depends on the firepower of its heavy gun.
-It would be a goldfish that sacrifices vertical acceleration for more turning and forward acceleration (For more capabilities in circling)
Only this time it has even less survivability with same armor but less health in exchange for the firepower of a Trifecta
I should really elaborate on what I mean by Sh*t armor
-A full greased Banshee clip can pull off 540 damage to Hull health and so you would be able to kill a Junker in one armor break relatively easily considering how hard it is to escape from a Banshee (If you decrease it's armor to around 400 it would break that armor like butter through a Hot knife).
-If we look at a scenario where two enemies are doing nothing but sticking together and covering each other, a Junker would be Skittled because focus fire from basically only one ship would significantly increase its Skittleability.
It would need to be more reliant on its ally considering its low survivability.
-Also in this scenario, you wouldn't be dependent on that High Armor to tank while you're always in Gat/Mortar Arc. Considering the firepower of Gat/Mortar, you don't kill the enemy fast enough to compensate for the risk of breaking such low Armor.... I think...
-You would have to depend on firepower that reduces the damage potential of the enemy ship \o_ Disable _o/
-As a bonus, the Disabling capabilities would also assist in out-maneuverability because it would decrease the Maneuverability of the enemy ship (I need a Thesaurus).
-I'm not saying you wouldn't bring Gat/Mort :-\, but you would only bring it when you have a really good ally or a really good Pub stomp
Daft Loon:
Comparing - junker:squid
Top speed - 26 : 47
Forward Acc. - 4.3 : 6.6 - Same band as spire and mobula
Top Turn - 16 : 19 - Junker is second only to squid as is
Turn Acc. - 15 : 20 - Also second only to squid
Vert. Acc. - 3 : 4 - Behind fish and spire also
In the horizontal plane the junker is already the second most maneuverable ship and the squid is first simply because it needs it to survive. Its vertical acceleration is tolerable but it really suffers the top speed.
The main problem i can see with it is that the mobula and spire can both match it in ranged firepower and back away from any attempt to close range:
Backwards spire/mob speed - 14m/s (19.6m/s if I'm right about thrust etc mechanics)
Junker closing speed - 12m/s but only if you go directly forwards, even if your guns have a range disadvantage of only 120m 10s of 1 gun vs 3 will kill you.
Trying to bring a side banshee into arc as a second gun - 30 deg sideways means 87% effective speed - 9.6m/s (maybe 3m/s)
To get a gatling - 77% - 8m/s (maybe 0.4m/s).
I certainly agree the junker could use a buff to top speed but i don't think the same/buffed turning/acc/vertical acc along with 400/500 armor/hull is the way to go. IMO the spire already takes glass cannon too far with 400/950 and i don't want to see the junker join or exceed it. I'd rather see it gain top speed with a trade off of turning to keep its close maneuverability about the same.
Silly thought experiment:
400/500 junker vs poon squid
Charged poon deals 178 armor damage - 222 left
222 armor deals 500 balloon damage when rammed - 700 squid balloon left
400 hull deals 480 balloon damage when rammed - 220 squid balloon left and junker is dead
Edit:
Did a quick test with a rangefinder in sandbox, with a spire going full throttle backwards a target took 20s to recede from 600m to 1000m. 400m/20s = 20m/s so 50% thrust backwards means 70% speed or so. As from above this is really bad for the junker.
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