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Suggestions for the Mobula and Junker

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Lieutenant Noir:
Be it the reign of Double Merc Sniper play to Quick Gat/Mortar kills to Heavy Carros to Multi-range Disable
The nature of this game relies on checks and Balances that work towards the uniqueness of what each ship can bring in a fight
I think this game suffers very big nerfs that don't take into account the severity of changes they entail. Big nerfs like those were good when the Game at the start was very imbalanced but now the game is becoming more balanced due to previous changes.
-Once a build/style/ship gets nerfed, players retreat to the playstyle that is the lesser nerfed and seems to be the next imbalanced factor (something that requires less risk but high reward).
-I don't think Nerfs are in their right, necessarily bad. I just think that we have had balances that went a little too far than it should have.
-If all we do is Buff, then everything becomes overpowered and that makes a fairly boring game. (Unless it is a game that sacrifices Balance for Variety like Hearthstone or Duck game)
-The more balancing patches the game takes, the more the game should become balanced and so people will retreat to the aspects that seem less balanced. The process goes over and over again as more patches continue, making the game more and more balanced along the way.





-When I suggested the change to the Mobula I looked into its ship design, its current stats, its strengths and weaknesses, as well as role it serves in combat. I also look into how each of those play towards Firepower, Mobility, and Tank-ability. I watch a lot of competitive play of the Mobula as well as use it a lot. I notice a lot of mistakes that both me and other pilots make that I think should be punished rather than forgiven considering those four factors.
-I don't just make these suggestions because I think the presence of a certain aspect makes the game imbalanced. If that's all I said then I would be suggesting everything about the ship be nerfed (Kinda like what has happened to the Pyra.... poor pyra).
-I don't want the Mobula to become another Pyra but I do think it shouldn't have that much Turn speed considering those four factors.

-I also took this approach to the Junker. My main problems were more about its ship design and how it plays into its stats and play-style. I think having that much exposure to components and balloon makes it a very bad slow/tanky/Jack-of-all-Trades.


--- Quote from: OnlySkeleton on September 24, 2015, 06:18:55 am ---Honestly I think that junkers and galleons are very strong ships, but they might be the hardest to master.

--- End quote ---

-My suggestions were never about how the Junker was underused. My suggestions were about problems I had with it concerning its ship design and stats that configure it towards a certain style of play that I think doesn't coordinate very well. My suggestions were to make a style of play more centered around its ship design by changing its stats.
-Look below


--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 23, 2015, 03:33:06 am ---I think people have experimented for a long time and we have seen Junkers in competitive games none the less. My problem isn’t regarding putting Junkers in competitive (although it might lead to that), my issue is in how the ship design of the Junker doesn’t make it very versatile or effective in many different situations in it’s current state.

I do agree that the nature of disables are what make the Junker as ineffective as it is. I will say though... a combination of slow speed and exposed components make disables much easier to hit and make the ship much more vulnerable to future disables.
This is bad for the Junker because the damage modifier from disable weapons will dig even faster into the hull once a component breaks, making that "Second highest armor in the game" useless.
I’m getting a little sick of having to repeat myself so please just read my previously mentioned problems with the current Junker.

-I really like comparing the Junker to the Squid because I think the way the Squid ship is designed is very similar to the Junker. They both have very close components to make it easier to engineer on, very exposed components, and a big balloon at the top.
-I think we see the success of the Squid because it has the maneuverability to nullify it's weaknesses in balloon, hull, engines, and gun exposure as well as counter many builds. I wanted to make the Junker more like the Squid in that it wouldn’t be as fast but have more firepower. I also wanted to decrease it's armor to encourage the play-style of outmaneuvering enemy ships much like the squid.

--- End quote ---

And


--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 23, 2015, 07:59:21 pm ---Also I want to say that I don't like how the Junker is configured towards Long range play. Mainly because it has very exposed components and a big balloon which means a ship like that staying still is a ridiculously easy target. I mentioned some of the problems in disabling in a previous post.

--- End quote ---

-I do agree that the game is very inconsistent and just because something is considered counter-able by another build, doesn't necessarily mean the result will be as you expect. There are a lot of factors to take into account and not every thing will be ideal.
-A ship that is considered countered will be more likely to be countered. I think the Junker is considered counter-able by many builds for very obvious reasons concerning how it is shaped and how it plays into its style of play.
-You can bring the Junker all you want and play it without regard to the map or enemy ship and you will still win matches regardless.
-Play the Junker enough and you will realize its strengths and weaknesses
-We have all played the Junker for a very very long time and we all seem to know its many weaknesses and strengths
-It can still surprise us... but I really don't think that it should only be surprising us

Daft Loon:
After playing what was possibly the most one sided massacre i have ever participated in flying a well buffed junker I'm developing a suspicion that fast junker would be one of the most OP things ever to be included into the game. More experienced opponents might have been able to keep up but this was only the result of the buffkit, I dread to think of stat buff + buffkit.

As an aside how do people prefer to run buffs on their junker? I'm thinking of running buff engineer 'gunner' for the hull and main engine and pilot buff for the balloon.

BlackenedPies:
The meta buff setup is wrench buff chem up top, spanner mallet chem front, spanner mallet buff bottom. So the gunner is on bottom with spanner mallet buff and they buff the engine, guns, and hull. Main engi is on front and in charge of hull and bottom chems, it's quick to run down and chem everything. The wrench buff is up top and the advent of stamina means it's more viable for the main engi to come up and mallet balloon when not directly in combat. The pilot is in charge of balloon repairs with their wrench.

In some tanking situations the gunner comes up top to work together to repair and buff balloon. Wrench buff never goes to hull and main engi can't leave an unprotected hull. An experienced pilot can help repair engines, guns, and even shoot.

Sammy B. T.:
Pilot buff is definitely tempting but fails for two reasons.

1. The pilot should be doing too much to be able to buff.

2. Pipe for the balloon is essential for both repairs and rebuilds. Top deck is just way to much work for just one engineer be they standard or buff.

Byron Cavendish:
I've always done spanner as a  pilot for galleon and junker. I'm not saying it's better, but I prefer to get that balloon repaired as fast as possible while the mallet is on it's way to it. Sammy just out of curiosity (since we both competed in junkers extensively) what do you prefer in the wrench?


--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 25, 2015, 06:48:51 pm ---After playing what was possibly the most one sided massacre i have ever participated in flying a well buffed junker I'm developing a suspicion that fast junker would be one of the most OP things ever to be included into the game. More experienced opponents might have been able to keep up but this was only the result of the buffkit, I dread to think of stat buff + buffkit.

As an aside how do people prefer to run buffs on their junker? I'm thinking of running buff engineer 'gunner' for the hull and main engine and pilot buff for the balloon.

--- End quote ---

I've always ran buff/ext/wrench on top deck if I'm left side sniping, main engineer front artemis, with a right side brawl switch of the buffgineer to the mortar and the main engineer running the top deck.

Back in the dizzay I would be a main engineer setup myself to maximize sniping, but it is much harder to pull off engineer pilot these days.

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