Main > Gameplay
Suggestions for the Mobula and Junker
BlackenedPies:
Don't forget that with mobula you'll probably only have 1 buff max whereas all other ships are great with 2. An interesting change for junker would be increasing its max vertical speed. All ships have the same vertical speed (16.97 - 17.06 m/s). Increasing its max vertical speed might make sense due to its large balloon which might cause drag but allow a higher top speed.
If the mobula is too OP decrease max speed to that of junker: 26. A bulky wide ship should have plenty of drag and relatively slow speed. Junker is the slowest ship in the game.
Lieutenant Noir:
--- Quote from: Dementio on September 23, 2015, 01:24:58 pm ---A problem that the Mobula always had, which still persists, is when people used it like a gunning platform, which is easy to do, but not the winning strategy, since if you don't want to make use of that vertical mobility, a long range Junker would be the better choice, because the Junker has an easier time repairing and buffing and can dodge just as well in long range, except maybe against Lumberjack.
I see where you are going with this idea, but out of the few ways you can actually fly it, you will remove the one that requires skill and is the rewarding one, while leaving the one in the game that people constantly whine about being tired of (Hades/Merc and double Artemis hardcore sniping for 10 minutes straight). I would rather have one of its light guns removed, making it less of a gunning platform and more something that pilots actually have to think about how to fly, and although I am not favouring this idea, I personally don't think it is that bad of a decision to remove one of its light guns.
--- End quote ---
I think that playing the Mobula like a gunning platform is using a ship to it's greatest strengths. This aspect is not something I have a problem with. I think that I have too much of an unfair advantage over other ships when all I have to do is turn to get enemies into arc while having the highest Vertical mobility as well as decent Forward mobility tucked away in emergencies. I think that in brawling engagements, the ship should encourage the use of it's vertical and Forward mobility more in terms of getting guns into arcs. I wouldn't want to remove one of it's light guns because you decrease it's capabilities in short range engagements as well as long range engagements. This would make the Mobula either specialized into short or long range builds and would decrease it's versatility significantly. I want the Mobula to have capabilities in Long and Short range engagements but I want it to have a significant weakness in one aspect of it's mobility. Also, how is the Mobula not a forward facing shooting-gallery/gunning-platform? It is basically a gunning platform and so should have long and short range guns to compensate for the fact that you would want your enemies in front of you at all times.
Also I want to say that I don't like how the Junker is configured towards Long range play. Mainly because it has very exposed components and a big balloon which means a ship like that staying still is a ridiculously easy target. I mentioned some of the problems in disabling in a previous post.
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--- Quote from: Dementio on September 23, 2015, 01:24:58 pm ---The Junker does by design not fit into the ambush section. Unlike every other ship except the Galleon, it has to waste its ambush time to get into a position and then shoot the enemy, because its guns are on the side. Pyramidion, Mobula and so on, do better because when they ambush they can go directly forward towards their enemy meaning they already are in position. The forward gun of the Junker can help put some damage on the enemy or even disable them, but generally that alone just won't do the trick for the Junker.
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I mentioned before in a previous post that I liked comparing the Junker to the Squid because I thought that the two were very similar in design. I think it also applies in terms of Gun placement, which makes it favor outmaneuvering and circling due to it's relatively high acceleration and more firepower on it's broadsides. I worded Ambushing wrong, I wanted it to be more like the Squid by increasing it's mobility to favor Circling and maneuvering outside of enemy arcs. I meant something along the lines of distracting and breaking formations, not ambushing. I would want to make the ship better at this play style because the way the ship is designed, doesn't make it a very good Sniping/Slow/Tank. Mind you with the current change, it would still be relatively good at Long range play but it would need the help of a good distraction considering the change in armor.
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--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:01:17 am ---Its theoretically possible for a squid to keep permanently out of arc but maybe not practical, particularly if losing speed to turn a second gun. Is it something that should be possible?
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A Mobula with it's strengths in Vertical and Forward mobility should be using those strengths to get in arcs/avoid enemy arcs. If all you're doing is circling in a slow turn speed ship, you would be playing towards the weaknesses of the ship. Also, considering we currently have builds that counter specific ships (and we've been fine with that) I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing.
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--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:01:17 am ---Why on earth (or in the sky as it may be) would anyone use the artemis for this when we have the hwacha and banshee??
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I would \o
Those are three good components you can disable in one clip and you would normally want two Artemis'es in the first place on a ship. I do pretty well with a Mercury with only two shots and with heat-sink I can disable three components.
If we change the Hwatcha back to the previous high jitter,
Heavy clip normally broke 1 or 2 components in a clip at long range and burst would break 4 or 5 in one clip at short range. Remember, that reload time is pretty damn long and Hwatcha shots don't hit every time.
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But enough about changes to the Artemis.... I don't want to be hunted any more than you do. :(
Daft Loon:
Some further thoughts:
How often do i actually use the maximum turn speed, I play mobula mainly on duel/paritan/canyons where circling is not even possible in most places. I'll have to bring it out again and pay attention to that next time i get a competent crew who don't mind moonshine rams.
The simplest way to nerf turn speed - increasing angular drag - would help with the 'clip a building even slightly - spin 720' problem the mobula has at the moment. I wouldn't mind that aspect at all.
--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 23, 2015, 07:59:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:01:17 am ---Why on earth (or in the sky as it may be) would anyone use the artemis for this when we have the hwacha and banshee??
--- End quote ---
I would \o
Those are three good components you can disable in one clip and you would normally want two Artemis'es in the first place on a ship. I do pretty well with a Mercury with only two shots and with heat-sink I can disable three components.
If we change the Hwatcha back to the previous high jitter,
Heavy clip normally broke 1 or 2 components in a clip at long range and burst would break 4 or 5 in one clip at short range. Remember, that reload time is pretty damn long and Hwatcha shots don't hit every time.
--- End quote ---
I don't follow. You were talking about breaking armor with the artemis for an achievement as a reason to avoid certain stat changes but that achievement can be gained far easier with the other kinds of rockets.
Lieutenant Noir:
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:20:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 23, 2015, 07:59:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:01:17 am ---Why on earth (or in the sky as it may be) would anyone use the artemis for this when we have the hwacha and banshee??
--- End quote ---
I would \o
Those are three good components you can disable in one clip and you would normally want two Artemis'es in the first place on a ship. I do pretty well with a Mercury with only two shots and with heat-sink I can disable three components.
If we change the Hwatcha back to the previous high jitter,
Heavy clip normally broke 1 or 2 components in a clip at long range and burst would break 4 or 5 in one clip at short range. Remember, that reload time is pretty damn long and Hwatcha shots don't hit every time.
--- End quote ---
I don't follow. You were talking about breaking armor with the artemis for an achievement as a reason to avoid certain stat changes but that achievement can be gained far easier with the other kinds of rockets.
--- End quote ---
Oops I meant this quote not that one
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:01:17 am ---Making it need 2 shots goes a bit too far i think and would essentially become 3 shots on any gun manned by an engineer with mallet.
--- End quote ---
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--- Quote from: Daft Loon on September 23, 2015, 09:20:14 pm ---The simplest way to nerf turn speed - increasing angular drag - would help with the 'clip a building even slightly - spin 720' problem the mobula has at the moment. I wouldn't mind that aspect at all.
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Do you mean increasing angular drag for all ships or increasing it on phoenix claw?
Also where do you see it? I've only seen it on helm items.
Daft Loon:
That makes more sense.
Increasing angular drag on the mobula alone as a way to reduce its maximum turn speed. Its neater than changing the engine stats which would change acceleration and linear movement as well.
I'm not aware of a way to see the drag stats for ships, i may be wrong about the way things work and turn speed etc are arbitrary but i think the speed, acceleration etc stats that are visible are derived from engine thrust, engine position, drag and mass.
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