Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode

[MightyKeb]

Honestly, with the unanimous opposition of the system in it's current state of execution from our team, all we could think about was doing our usual thing and seeing how it goes rather than taking advantage of something that can be enforced outside of our control at any time. But I think regardless of whether Lueosi decides to give just one captain the coin toss decider of the game, I think blindpicks after timer is the best solution we're looking for. It may take a bit more time and slightly increase the duration of the event but I think it's the fairest thing you can do since sliced bread. Think about it; this system was meant to find a solution to hardcountering game, there it is. The answer's infront of us and it doesnt ruin anything about the old lobbies. I'd rather have a total of 6 minutes lobby timer with the blindpicks should it come to worst and have a fair and square match that both teams agree to sign up on rather than having to involve myself in some sort of "lobby game". Are we here to play the game, or are we here to read minds to Supreme Champion of the bracket?

[Extirminator]

...whatever the heck that mobula Daniel had in that last game...

All those builds flown that day were going to be used even if there weren't blind picks, Daniel did not have a computer for the longest time because it died and he made a bunch of new mobula builds in the meantime

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

If we are doing blind picks after timer, then anyone who wants a blind pick will request it after the timer ends and we will have ended up wasting all the timer minutes for nothing.  It ends up being the same in the end just with more wasted time.

A single, one-stage blind pick has some valid complaints as to luck and hard countering coming up just by chance.  However, the two-stage blind pick clearly gives you an option to complement your first ship, even if it is countered by the enemy's first ship, with something that will counter the enemy's ship as your second pick.

[MightyKeb]

If we are doing blind picks after timer, then anyone who wants a blind pick will request it after the timer ends and we will have ended up wasting all the timer minutes for nothing.  It ends up being the same in the end just with more wasted time.

As I've said earlier, this could be balanced out by both teams having to agree on a blindpick initially for it to replace the old lobby timer. If not yes, the team that wants the blindpick could easily exploit the timer, but that doesn't mean they're untouchable and right now I'm thinking of penalizing teams who force blindpicks through timing out and not readying up. The scenario I imagine when suggesting blind picks after timer was both teams being unsure and thus noone readying up. The teams should be prompted to have an idea of what they're bringing. This is not a developed idea as of now but I'm thinking of not involving blindpicks at all if one of the teams have readied up before the lobby timer. At the end of it, the other team is prompted to switch one more time, then it's observed whether the ready team reacts to this by changing loadouts or staying with their current setup.

Of course this could end up having no relevance. And that is the problem here, either an idea is too supressed to solve the problem or it's too exploitable by the teams. But all in all, I think if we encourage teams to specialize in a few signature builds then we won't have to debate this problem in the first place.

[nanoduckling]

...whatever the heck that mobula Daniel had in that last game...

All those builds flown that day were going to be used even if there weren't blind picks, Daniel did not have a computer for the longest time because it died and he made a bunch of new mobula builds in the meantime

Yeah well I keep emailing Muse asking them to nerf Daniel but they never listen.

[Spud Nick]

I remember teams like the Paddling, Wolf pack, Crimson Sky Ryders and the Mandarins who would bring the same ship builds every time and still dominate because they had enough skill and experience to win. Other teams would try to counter them and fail because they didn't have enough practice and coordination to pull it off.

What has changed in competitive play that has every team looking for an advantage in terms of ship builds? If you have a strong team with a lot of practice do you really need to counter the other team in order to win?

[GurasOguras]

The best idea for me is to play standard Lobbies of Icarus till lobby time will run out. Then when both teams ships are locked ref asks teams if they're good and want to play like that, or one of the teams is not happy, because their opponents have changed ships few seconds before timer is out. Then go for blindpicks. Another thing is - don't make teams ready up, just make write at chat "READY". This will prevent last second swap when in-game lobby countdown is already 5 sec or less making impossible to react for changes.

Pros:
+ Solving last second swaps, so other teams being unhappy about that. That's the main problem we're discussing about here.
+ No enforcing blind picks from the beginning. People against blindpicks idea should be happy, if blindpicks will be enforced only when really necessary.

We could also just say "Don't be a dick". Teams usually aren't like that. After all the only thing that we seek in here is good fun, not trying to win lobby so actual in game skills will have no matter. We're playing GoIo, not rock-scissors-paper. Don't forget about that.

[Mean Machine]

Since there is no way to get a great lobby system with current ingame "tools", I have best solution. We declare mobula as only competitive ship, so everyone can only fly mobula. \o/

[Dementio]

What has changed in competitive play that has every team looking for an advantage in terms of ship builds?

Back then teams were happy flying the exact same thing over and over again. Back then teams also focused more on killing than disabling. Even back then countering ships did happen, but most teams were happy enough to roll with their current setup still, because they were happy flying the same thing over and over again. Back then a lot of teams put more effort into practising their pilot coordination, gunning and engineering.

A lot of teams today are not like back then: Not happy flying the exact same thing over and over again and are not as practised. If I am correct than it may also explain the increase of Hwachas, comp and casual, because you don't need to practise that much to hit with it and it allows your teammate an easier kill, while you yourself die slower or not at all.

Believe it or not, even I don't want to fly the same Mobula loadout every single time and even I want to fly ships that are not a Mobula, but I also don't want to ruin my own fun by handicapping myself and my team.

Since there is no way to get a great lobby system with current ingame "tools", I have best solution. We declare mobula as only competitive ship, so everyone can only fly mobula. \o/

But I do approve of this.

[Fynx]

Since there is no way to get a great lobby system with current ingame "tools", I have best solution. We declare mobula as only competitive ship, so everyone can only fly mobula. \o/

But I do approve of this.

I have a better idea. Mark mobula as OP and forbid using it in competitive.

But now seriously, I'm thinking that would actually do the trick and teams would be bringing more specialised ships/loadouts/ship combinations.

[Dementio]

specialised ships/loadouts/ship combinations

which more often than not only work against certain stuff and people will think they are getting countered -> blind pick is calling

[Lueosi]

We will run the SCS ##69 with the same rules from the previous week.

What do you guys think about limited opt-in for blind picks? For example a fixed number or maybe scaled with event size.

Also I'm thinking about some mechanics to transition normal lobbies into blind pick mode if teams keep switching until the end. Maybe teams cannot change loadout in the last 30sec and if they do, the lobby enters blind pick mode? The problem is it gives away to both teams what the other team wants to bring and it could be exploited by looking what the other team chooses and then force blind pick by request or own ship change at the end of the lobby timer, so only one team knows what the other team wanted to bring.

[Spud Nick]

Maybe teams cannot change loadout in the last 30sec and if they do, the lobby enters blind pick mode?

Force all of them to fly munkers if they change loadouts! or just kick them out of the event...The first option would be more entertaining to watch.

[FranckM]

I am late to the conversation so this might have been proposed before but why not just ask captain to come in the game with the ship they will play and stop them from changing. Also only come in the game with both captain from the same team at the same time.

If it's not clear I can try to reformulate.

[Lueosi]

A few days ago I talked a bit about the current implementation with MightyKeb.

I'd like to test our ideas this week. There are no changes to the blind picks themselves but how a lobby transitions into blind pick mode. Basically if both teams keep changing their loadouts, the lobby goes into blind pick mode. Each team has an individual counter for changes and blind picks are only enforced if both teams exceed the threshold.

The OT is updated, so you can check out the detailed rules. We will test this updated rule for SCS #72 this Sunday.