Author Topic: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode  (Read 24543 times)

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« on: August 31, 2015, 05:29:03 pm »
Hi guys, the idea is not new and was always around, still no event tried it out so far: blind picks

The current metagame evolves around a few good ship and gun combinations, there are counters to specific loadouts and also some fairly good anti-counter solutions. The current competitive scene with its regular event the Sunday Community Skirmish allows teams to practice new tactics but is also a test ground for new GOIO rule sets to give ideas for major tournament rules. Even if counter picking is much less of an issue than it was in the course of the event, it is still present and we want to provide teams a way to work around that an allow new tactical drafting.

updated rules: version 3 (08.10.2015)

What is coming?
The next SCS #67 and all following skirmishes until further notice will introduce a new mandatory blind pick rule (short version):
  • lobby transition into blind pick mode
    • ship loadout changes after the first lobby minute will increase an individual counter for each team
    • if the counter reaches a threshold (5) for both teams, the lobby transitions into blind pick mode
    • no ship loadout changes allowed in the last 30sec lobby time
    • captains have to mention in chat loadout changes
  • blind pick mode
    • 2 min time to privately message the referee the first pick (one ship), then picks get revealed
    • 2 min time to privately message the referee the second pick (remaining ship), then picks get revealed
    • 1 min time to change classes and equipment

More details please!
Here is the full ruleset:
  • ship loadout changes after the first lobby minute will increase an individual counter for each team
  • if the counter reaches a threshold (5) for both teams, the lobby transitions into blind pick mode
    • blind picks can be avoided if both teams agree on it/li]
  • no ship loadout changes allowed in the last 30sec lobby time
    • a gun or ship change counts as ship loadout change
    • a team forfeits the match if they change ship loadouts during that time
  • captains have to mention in chat about ship loadout changes
    • it is up to the referee to penalize teams for not informing about ship loadout changes in a reasonable time (a few seconds) after change
  • all captains have two minutes time after confirmed blind pick mode to pick one ship loadout and pming it to the referee (ship and gun placement)
    • if a captain doesn't message the referee in time about the chosen loadout, the currently selected loadout is locked down
  • after both teams have picked one ship, the teams are informed and all captains have to change their ship selections to their blind pick
    • captains have to select the picks in a reasonable time manner (not more than one minute) or it results in a forfeit
  • the (partial) picks are revealed to the team and the previous two pick steps are repeated until all ships have been picked
  • after all ships are locked down, the teams are informed and have an additional one minute time to adjust equipment, classes and slots
  • if a team doesn't ready up in time after equipment selection, they forfeit the game
  • changed ship loadouts result in a forfeit
These rules are not included in the official SCS document yet, because we still want to experiment how it works out and if it is a good option.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 02:20:52 pm by -Muse- Ayetach »

Offline MightyKeb

  • Member
  • Salutes: 78
    • [GwTh]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2015, 06:13:40 pm »
Question, is it possible for one or either of the captains on the opposing team to deny the blind pick request from the other team's captain? So far I am skeptical about this idea and I'd rather see how it pans out to get a better understanding of it than play out the ensuing chaos myself.

Offline Lueosi

  • Member
  • Salutes: 56
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 06:35:10 pm »
There is no possibility to deny a blind pick if the enemy chooses so.

Offline BlackenedPies

  • Member
  • Salutes: 134
    • [Duck]
    • 30 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 07:15:05 pm »
  • a single team captain request is enough to enforce blind picks

This will be controversial. I think both teams need to agree.

Offline Urz

  • Member
  • Salutes: 75
    • [MM]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2015, 07:27:35 pm »
a single team captain request is enough to enforce blind picks
This will be controversial. I think both teams need to agree.

Both teams having to agree would defeat the purpose of the rule, which is to prevent a team from abusing the lobby timer to counter their opponent.

It's an optional rule because it doesn't need to be enforced in matches where neither team cares.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 07:29:13 pm by Urz »

Offline Fynx

  • Member
  • Salutes: 30
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 07:31:37 pm »
Haha this looks like total madness.

But it looks like fun too. Competitive scene is slowly dying, so we might as well do something crazy. It's like a lobby game on a higher level with more knowledge about other team and dice rolls.

On the other side I read the detailed complicated rules three times and I still don't get them fully so expect plenty of mishaps.

Offline Urz

  • Member
  • Salutes: 75
    • [MM]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2015, 07:43:54 pm »
It's really not that complicated. The idea is that both teams lock in the builds they want to bring without their opponent knowing, preventing back and forth counter-picking.

1. Before your team joins the lobby, you request a blind pick from the referee. Either team can request this.
2. Once the opponent has been notified, both teams have two minutes to decide what builds they want to bring, and privately message them to the referee.
3. There is one additional minute for crew preparation before the teams have to ready up.

Offline MightyKeb

  • Member
  • Salutes: 78
    • [GwTh]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2015, 08:12:26 pm »
The way I see it, if a team has one composition they practice with preemptively then they'll confidently take on a counter pick or two anyway (Unless it's a hwacha, lion gun OP), so in a sense a similiar case relating to this system has always been around and generally teams that switch ships around all the time are either new into comp and looking for their niche or just too old and do way too well that they're trying something unconventional for the fun of it.

Offline GurasOguras

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 30
    • [GwTh]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 05:50:46 am »
I really don't like this format. This way you can easily get one team hardcountered because someone will take something you don't expect. Team composition is not always about your own ships, but also about checking what your opponents have. Eventually if 2 good teams will meet they always will have composition consisting both good teamplay ships and not allowing opponents to hardcounter them.

Enjoy that at least age of metamidions is over, because you would see only double metamidions this way. You want to make competitive interesting? Research valid draft system like in every e-sport game if you REALLY need to change something. But current system is totally fine. Just play with bricks you have and don't invent any weird shit. Knowledge about ships compositions and counters is very important skill element of the team and valid gameplay element. This game should be about skills, not about who got more lucky trying to guess what opponents will bring. This idea is too controversial to be implemented. When some teams start to abuse it the rest will refuse to play like that which will occur in killing competitive insead of growing the scene.

Huge dislike from me.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 05:54:11 am by GurasOguras »

Offline Skrimskraw

  • Member
  • Salutes: 160
    • [GwTh]
    • 21 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 05:55:41 am »
test it, and then decide ;)

I'm just hoping we get to test no pauses.

Offline Dementio

  • Member
  • Salutes: 134
    • [Rydr]
    • 43 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 05:55:57 am »
Eventually if 2 good teams will meet they always will have composition consisting both good teamplay ships and not allowing opponents to hardcounter them..

Then why would any of these teams want to go for a blind pick in the first place?

Offline Kamoba

  • Member
  • Salutes: 175
    • [♫]
    • 30 
    • 34
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Robin and Magpie Leather
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2015, 06:23:49 am »
test it, and then decide ;)

This.

The thing to remember is the SCS is about competitive teams coming together for a scrimmage, there are no prizes no awards, which means teams can afford to take weird builds and afford to loose. Loosing does not stop you taking part the next week. Equally it's about event organisers testing out of the box ideas to save other tournament organisers screwing up, as the scs organisers can relay what rules do and do not work.
So test it, be brave.

Offline nanoduckling

  • Member
  • Salutes: 116
    • [♫]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2015, 08:21:09 am »
I really dislike this idea, in fact I think I hate it. We should do it.

No seriously, the point of the SCS is to act as the proving ground for competitive play and that extends to rule sets. No one is suggesting adopting this permanently unless it works. Lets try it for a few weeks and see how it goes, it might help some of the less experienced teams avoid just getting hard countered over and over.

I see a few problems we should watch out for. We might see more meta builds. We might see teams looking for the next duck junker and one might find one. We might see more one-sided games as teams get hard countered by accident which is going to feel really unfair, or we might see teams restrict themselves to builds that have only soft counters.

Offline GurasOguras

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 30
    • [GwTh]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2015, 08:22:34 am »
Then why would any of these teams want to go for a blind pick in the first place?

And that's why the whole idea of blind picks is stupid. If you want to beat better team improve your own, not abuse some stupid rules.

The thing to remember is the SCS is about competitive teams coming together for a scrimmage, there are no prizes no awards, which means teams can afford to take weird builds and afford to loose.

Leaderboard should be removed then. Actually leaderboard should never appear for SCS. SCS until now is the only place when you can play game more seriously. People who want "just play" are signing up for TimmyB or Aerodrome.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 08:25:49 am by GurasOguras »

Offline nanoduckling

  • Member
  • Salutes: 116
    • [♫]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Sunday Community Skirmish: New optional blind pick mode
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2015, 08:34:03 am »
One more thought occurs. The restrictions on how to enforce the rule are tight, I understand why, but teams unfamiliar with the details of rules or with subs who are unfamiliar could get bit in the backside. Can we give opposing captains the option to waive those rules for picks if they would like?

The scenario I'm thinking of is we get some new team sign up who want to make use of this option but one of their number joins the lobby early by mistake. I'd like to be in a position where at the other teams discretion we allow the rule to be applied.