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Byron Cavendish:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on March 04, 2015, 05:13:41 am ---That's not what happens. A low level player joins a ship and refuses to bring the right ammo and tools no matter your explanation. Ignorance about the game is no excuse when the loadout logic is explained. These players just want to do whatever and refuse to be told otherwise. A single reply of "no fuck you" to either bringing a loadout or leaving is a pretty telltale sign of trolling.

This is a team game. If a crew member refuses to bring an acceptable loadout this forces the pilot either to be at a decisive disadvantage or to leave. I always choose the latter. A captain shouldn't be forced to leave because of uncooperative crew. This is game breaking and unacceptable behavior. It's a simple choice: they can play with the team, they can leave, or I will leave and report them because they are trolling.

Thankfully this is a vast minority of players. Same with captains who give out bad loadouts. If a captain gives you a bad loadout, accept it and explain why you're changing an aspect. If they tell you not to then either keep the loadout or leave. By refusing to you are creating unnecessary conflict. Deliberately disobeying is a bad precedent.

--- End quote ---

That is precisely why I only play with my clan now. I stopped playing with pick-ups after match making. I don't have time to beat my head against the wall arguing or trying to beat the clock before match making starts the game. It's sad that eventually this is what the game has developed into.

Lanliss:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on March 04, 2015, 05:13:41 am ---That's not what happens. A low level player joins a ship and refuses to bring the right ammo and tools no matter your explanation. Ignorance about the game is no excuse when the loadout logic is explained. These players just want to do whatever and refuse to be told otherwise. A single reply of "no fuck you" to either bringing a loadout or leaving is a pretty telltale sign of trolling.

--- End quote ---

Loadout logic being explained is a bit heavy for new players. Loadouts often involve a meta that involves knowing specific numbers for specific guns by heart. I understand where you are coming from, and trust me I do know that there are some people out there like this. I just do not believe in some of these solutions. Leave and report? That sounds a little childish. Not to insult you, by any means, but that sounds a lot like running to the parents, when more mature people should be able to figure these problems out on their own. I understand that the reporting option is there for a reason, and some of these players deserve it, but I have seen people refuse loadouts for the reasons I described, simply lacking the knowledge or understanding of the game. This also leads to them not knowing what an explanation means. A new player that does not know much is not going to know to have lesmok in flamer until the enemy gets close, then switch to burst. Even being told to do this does not help, because they do not clearly understand the why of a loadout. I do not think a lack of knowledge, combined with a refusal to blindly follow the orders of someone who happens to be a higher level than them should get someone reported, nor should it cause you to leave. I personally consider it almost a sin to the holy Sky Whale to let the mouse pass over the exit button. Maybe it is because I have not had many bad experiences, and even my bad experiences were still pretty fun, but I do not see a reason to leave simply because you have the low ground.

I played a game against a clan, though they seemed relatively new. One of them moved over to my ship and did nothing but stand on the bow the entire time. I can see how that would anger some people, but I take it as a challenge. One that I passed by the way, in a 2-5 game. I thought it was an excellent bit of experience to play with a crew of two, without even an AI to help them, and I think sticking it out and ignoring the troll really helped me grow as a player. Maybe it really is just me, but I can deal with a bit of an extra challenge. Also as soon as you rage or leave they get what they want, so just another reason to continue as normal, preferably just ignoring their existence.

BlackenedPies:
There are players that refuse to bring loadouts regardless of how convincing you may seem. In my experience these players are almost always kids who join in during sales. The refusal has nothing to do with the actual mechanics of the game, they just want to play it on their own. I've had players argue that they'll use whatever ammo they want and to go fuck myself. The best thing to do is not escalate anything and quickly leave. I disagree that it's childish to report and leave, it's responsible. Reporting is futile on its own but if the player accumulates enough then a mod will talk to them.

Maybe you could convince them to bring a loadout, but from my experience the players don't care. They are kids with bad attitudes. Thankfully most players who refuse loadouts take my second request and leave. Again, refusing loadouts and refusing to leave is a small minority but I've encountered it at least 100 times. The vast majority of players listen and want to learn. Playing with an uncooperative player sets a bad precedent.

Kamoba:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on March 04, 2015, 11:27:44 am ---There are players that refuse to bring loadouts regardless of how convincing you may seem. In my experience these players are almost always kids who join in during sales. The refusal has nothing to do with the actual mechanics of the game, they just want to play it on their own. I've had players argue that they'll use whatever ammo they want and to go fuck myself. The best thing to do is not escalate anything and quickly leave. I disagree that it's childish to report and leave, it's responsible. Reporting is futile on its own but if the player accumulates enough then a mod will talk to them.

Maybe you could convince them to bring a loadout, but from my experience the players don't care. They are kids with bad attitudes. Thankfully most players who refuse loadouts take my second request and leave. Again, refusing loadouts and refusing to leave is a small minority but I've encountered it at least 100 times. The vast majority of players listen and want to learn. Playing with an uncooperative player sets a bad precedent.

--- End quote ---


This is also the procedure Muse encourage people to take when encountering issues, B R L, Block Report Leave.
It avoids any arguments escalating, and assuming the majority of players follow these rules, the unsavory characters will be weeded out.

As Blackened said, something which I have encountered more than a couple of times, you try to be polite and offer a load out, and the "Call of Duty mlg-pro" gansta wanna be will just hurl abuse at you because of no reason beyond that which triple A games unintentially support and breed when they make single players "feel like god" in online games and encourage, not sportsman like competition but "IM GUNNA ****ING KILL U NUB" attitudes.

MightyKeb:

--- Quote from: Lanliss on March 04, 2015, 09:04:01 am ---
--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on March 04, 2015, 05:13:41 am ---That's not what happens. A low level player joins a ship and refuses to bring the right ammo and tools no matter your explanation. Ignorance about the game is no excuse when the loadout logic is explained. These players just want to do whatever and refuse to be told otherwise. A single reply of "no fuck you" to either bringing a loadout or leaving is a pretty telltale sign of trolling.

--- End quote ---

Loadout logic being explained is a bit heavy for new players. Loadouts often involve a meta that involves knowing specific numbers for specific guns by heart. I understand where you are coming from, and trust me I do know that there are some people out there like this. I just do not believe in some of these solutions. Leave and report? That sounds a little childish. Not to insult you, by any means, but that sounds a lot like running to the parents, when more mature people should be able to figure these problems out on their own. I understand that the reporting option is there for a reason, and some of these players deserve it, but I have seen people refuse loadouts for the reasons I described, simply lacking the knowledge or understanding of the game. This also leads to them not knowing what an explanation means. A new player that does not know much is not going to know to have lesmok in flamer until the enemy gets close, then switch to burst. Even being told to do this does not help, because they do not clearly understand the why of a loadout. I do not think a lack of knowledge, combined with a refusal to blindly follow the orders of someone who happens to be a higher level than them should get someone reported, nor should it cause you to leave. I personally consider it almost a sin to the holy Sky Whale to let the mouse pass over the exit button. Maybe it is because I have not had many bad experiences, and even my bad experiences were still pretty fun, but I do not see a reason to leave simply because you have the low ground.

I played a game against a clan, though they seemed relatively new. One of them moved over to my ship and did nothing but stand on the bow the entire time. I can see how that would anger some people, but I take it as a challenge. One that I passed by the way, in a 2-5 game. I thought it was an excellent bit of experience to play with a crew of two, without even an AI to help them, and I think sticking it out and ignoring the troll really helped me grow as a player. Maybe it really is just me, but I can deal with a bit of an extra challenge. Also as soon as you rage or leave they get what they want, so just another reason to continue as normal, preferably just ignoring their existence.

--- End quote ---

I almost always try to make sure these sorts of players are briefed on what theyre doing as to not face the loadout difficulties you've already explained. But what bothers me is how you call reporting and leaving, "childish". No, the best case scenario for a troll isnt to make you leave. Its to make you mad and leave. By simply blocking and leaving, Pies is avoiding going through the trouble of challenging his reasoning with an uncooperative player and perhaps even losing his temper along the way. I do carry matches often, but I try to avoid it as much whenever I have the opportunity. Picture this: You have a mobula ally on canyon ambush who backs up into his own tar, has his gunners load lochnagar into the guns and has on one occassion crashed and killed himself on the terrain. What do you do? Well, if you go on about calling it a "challenge" and 2v1ing the hell out of the match and winning, that is far less productive and merely rewards you and promotes your abilities as a captain to yourself, which might potentially end up with you overestimating your own abilities and thus, creating elitism.


Whereas, you could just attempt to communicate with this said pilot, and through explaining atleast SOME basics and essentials, you could actually get him to be a little more than a distraction/meatshield, which will help him hold his own alone in his later lobbies and eventually improve and be like you should he dedicate himself to the game. The world doesnt toy around with you to hamper your success Lanliss, its not a fight, its just an unfortunate situation that you CAN fix to make everyone's lives easier. Ie, you could have established comms with that engineer on the bow, even if you just yelled at him or something or lost your temper along the way, you got him a bit closer to doing his job right and that will help him in his efforts to crew under less tolerant/newer captains.


But that's just how I like to look at it, I'm not sure if I came off a bit crude but I'm not gonna apologize, I said what I had to say.

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