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Lanliss:
Ok, a lot has happened since I last checked, so I will try to not ramble here.

To Jazzhand, you must have gotten lucky with that winning streak. Maybe you got decent AI, combined with fighting against bad players. Regardless, Unless you are an absolute god, I am sure you had trouble that you would not have had with players helping out. Maybe you really are just that good, but your experience does.not represent the standard for gameplay. Most of the time you need a team of at least two good players, or three to four decent players, for a ship to carry a game.

As for the lookout thing, I generally do not see the reason for it. I accept the lockouts that are offered to me, sometimes with minor tweaking (like trading an extinguisher out for chem spray), but so many captains have their own niche play style where they absolutely need this engie to carry the buff, mallet, and chem spray(that is just an example, do not know if people really do that specific combo). My point is that a lot of captains have their own specific play style, and if a player cannot adapt from captain to captain they are often considered bad. I have played with captains who based their play style on a strat that worked out once, and they keep going with it, then blaming the crew when their "badass" all flak spire does not work out.
I understand that their are trolls, and that they will refuse decent loadouts just to screw with people, but refusing a loadout does not make someone a troll. Maybe they just thought it was a bad loadout, maybe they did not think they could play with it. Maybe it had a buff hammer and they had no experience with that, and we're worried they would do poorly with that. There are a lot of reasons that someone might turn down a loadout, and being a troll is not the only reason.


Now on to Disaster, because he got his response in before I finished typing this beast(I hope their is not a limit to characters on here)

I am not refusing to understand your point, I just want the information plain and simple, so there is no chance of the devs misunderstanding when I eventually send them a link to this thread. I though I might have known what your problem was with the idea, but on the internet, over text, it is difficult to be sure about things like that. Also, from what I have seen, a lot of people want that step back, as that would solve the problem of novices not being novice long enough. Not trying to shut your idea down, just saying what I have seen on here.

Arturo Sanchez:
Lan... read my post.
It pre-emptively dealt with what you presume I didn't consider.


As for the whole refusing load out thing.
"please take my totally OP chem extinguisher buff build i reccomended and get rid of that spy glass, you need rangefinder."

Its not that cut and dry. Sometimes you gotta go with your common sense and just go no. I'm going with this. I'm going to save your dumbass by making this choice of refusing your dumb build. I am also going to scrutinise every single error you have made and will make and predict exactly what is going to happen if you go with your genius strategem.

Suffice to say, they take in a hurt pride and go with whatever dumb idea they go with, but in the end I'm proven 100% right and my common sense choice to go with whatever build i can to salvage the trainwreck shows its truth.

Real trolls are intelligent people that intentionally act harmfully. An idiot is not a troll, it is an idiot whos incompetence is the undoing of their crewmates and their teams. They mean well, but they don't do well. worst of them are the know it all noobs.

A certain person was asking for spire builds.

He started with double gat carronade. I told him exactly why it was bad. It broke hull sure but the carronade is for balloon. It can do hull damage but it won't give the kill power you want. A decent ship can simply tank the hits long enough to either ram or disable as essentially nothing is ceasing their momentum.

So after he went with my advice and replaced the carron with a flak. It did what a flak does, near insta kills upon hull break. With two hull breakers the flak didn't need to wait long for the hull break. And if the gats and flak get decent arcs in on a target, it will play on the strength of a spire as a glass cannon and kill before lethal damage to the ship is done. A destroyed ship cant hurt the spire with a ram. A hull broken balloon popped ship though? Its diagonal ram stings way more than a normal ram. As it does forward momentum and downward momentum on that ramming action. The rammer might die but its highly likely that you would too especially on a spire that has all its crew on guns (since its a kill or be killed ship)

*point of the story found here.
After that, I said that if you want heavy spire then go with the known trifecta carron spire. With 2 barking and 1 hell hound. At first it had a gat on its fourth slot and I said replace it with a flamer. But then this new guy came (some lvl 20 know it all), and started yammering on about the merits of a hull break to couple with a carronade (a lesson I had just taught to be stupid on the first spire). So he asks why? We need a hull breaker? What do we have to hull break?

The ground. One bounce and that hull is gone. A 2nd bounce that ship is gone. All the while that carronade is doing is balloon locking as 3 carronades are firing doing direct hull dmg via the broken balloon. Any rebuilds is instantly broken. replace 1 carronade to the mix and you distract the ship from balloon rebuilds as other parts gets set on fire. Guns overheat. Engines burn out. Hull breaks.

1 gun for a hull break vs 1 gun that damages all parts and paralyses a full crew from fixing key parts. Common sense would say flamer for that balloon destroy assist as it sets other parts on fire that none of the target ship can ignore either. A decent crew can split their 2 engies on hull balloon easily, and what you don't want is to give time to the enemy to be rescued.


All this info is common sense. You just need to think a moment on what things do and what situations they do best. What situations counters them and what tactics need to be employed to play in a position of strength.

Alot of people don't think that large a scale but come in thinking they are goddamn Gabriel of the Icarus. I don't listen to people like that because my vast experience and extensive research (that is freely available to everyone yet very few actually look into) tells me that X idea is dumb. Hence I will not humour that stupidity.

If being an asset that the incompetent person didn't ask for is being a troll. Then frankly, I guess I am a very good troll that keeps ships alive and gets kills (but still loses because dumbass thought gat mortar on a squid is a thing)

BlackenedPies:
That's not what happens. A low level player joins a ship and refuses to bring the right ammo and tools no matter your explanation. Ignorance about the game is no excuse when the loadout logic is explained. These players just want to do whatever and refuse to be told otherwise. A single reply of "no fuck you" to either bringing a loadout or leaving is a pretty telltale sign of trolling.

This is a team game. If a crew member refuses to bring an acceptable loadout this forces the pilot either to be at a decisive disadvantage or to leave. I always choose the latter. A captain shouldn't be forced to leave because of uncooperative crew. This is game breaking and unacceptable behavior. It's a simple choice: they can play with the team, they can leave, or I will leave and report them because they are trolling.

Thankfully this is a vast minority of players. Same with captains who give out bad loadouts. If a captain gives you a bad loadout, accept it and explain why you're changing an aspect. If they tell you not to then either keep the loadout or leave. By refusing to you are creating unnecessary conflict. Deliberately disobeying is a bad precedent.

Kamoba:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on March 04, 2015, 05:13:41 am ---Thankfully this is a vast minority of players. Same with captains who give out bad loadouts. If a captain gives you a bad loadout, accept it and explain why you're changing an aspect. If they tell you not to then either keep the loadout or leave. By refusing to you are creating unnecessary conflict. Deliberately disobeying is a bad precedent.

--- End quote ---


A good example of this happened yesterday, one captain offered a gunner loadout to a level 30 engineer and the guy said. "Hey captain I accepted the load out but will change the charged for burst because it is more effective with the manticore than loch, unless you had any specific plans?...."
Captain (Level 10) "Oh okay...  I thought the damage would be good."
Gunner explained Loch mechanics on manticore...
Captain: "ahh i see!"

Happy days.

Communication in a polite manner is OP.

Schwalbe:
I know right! And I always try this at first and second try. Till try, when I starting to unleash the beast of a sarcasm inside.

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