1.4.0 Pyra. Too much stick?

[Ayetach]

I'll agree with RearAdmiralZill on this one

[ShadedExalt]

I thought the Pyra was perfect where it was, TBH... If you REALLY have to nerf it, nerf accel or turn, or hell, just make it heavier!  Pyra is a VANGUARD.  Vanguards charge in, rek things, and generally make themselves a MASSIVE NUISANCE- If used right.  Used wrong, they blunder round sluggishly and fail.

Does that sound like current Pyra?

[Richard LeMoon]

It is too heavy already. I would personally cut its weight down quite a bit, give it higher speed, lower turning, and higher acceleration. It should not be a tank, however. Screw up your rush, and it should be punishing.

[ShadedExalt]

Yeah, but they evidently want to nerf the Pyra, so making it heavier increases ram damage, but slows everything down.

I'm all for making it speedier, and agree a failed rush should punish... But ATM a failed rush buttrapes you instead of badly hurting you.

[Crafeksterty]

I thought the Pyra was perfect where it was, TBH... If you REALLY have to nerf it, nerf accel or turn, or hell, just make it heavier!  Pyra is a VANGUARD.  Vanguards charge in, rek things, and generally make themselves a MASSIVE NUISANCE- If used right.  Used wrong, they blunder round sluggishly and fail.

Does that sound like current Pyra?

It does if you use the correct loadouts this time around.
I strongly suggest having full on some kind disable front, ram and turn for killing side.

[Mean Machine]

I thought the Pyra was perfect where it was, TBH... If you REALLY have to nerf it, nerf accel or turn, or hell, just make it heavier!  Pyra is a VANGUARD.  Vanguards charge in, rek things, and generally make themselves a MASSIVE NUISANCE- If used right.  Used wrong, they blunder round sluggishly and fail.

Does that sound like current Pyra?

Every ship reks if used right and fails when used wrong. Pyra still has same firepower and is still a threat, you just can't charge enemy face to face everytime anymore. As it should be. There is a reason why they nerfed pyra and that reason is because it was used way more than any other ship, which got to tell you something. It's not just that it was dominating in pubs, it was also extremely good in competitive. It wasn't a ship with best firepower or best durability or best mobility or anything, but it was good at everything and it was too easy to use making it the "safest" pick for most players. Only the most experienced teams learned how to deal with metamidions effectively.
You can still destroy ships very fast like before, you just have to be smart and fast enough to avoid armor break before their armor breaks.

[Dementio]

There is a reason why they nerfed pyra and that reason is because it was used way more than any other ship, which got to tell you something.

It wasn't used more than other ships, because it had so much hull health.

[Mean Machine]

There is a reason why they nerfed pyra and that reason is because it was used way more than any other ship, which got to tell you something.

It wasn't used more than other ships, because it had so much hull health.

Of course not, I didn't say that. Nerfing hull was Muse's idea of making pyra "balanced".

Like I said in my post, it has decent all around stats and it's easy to use, easy to manage for all crew members  and thus makes it pretty much the safest pick a lot of times.

[Dementio]

Which one can translate to: The hull health nerf was kind of pointless, so why have it in the first place?

[ZnC]

Being in a team that often brings double Pyra, my experience is that we die a lot more. Of cause, it wouldn't matter in a near-perfect engagement, but against a good team, how often does that happen?
The enemy knows that you will charge, they might get ambushed once, but that's about it. It is difficult to set up ambushes constantly the entire game.

I didn't like the nerf at first, but now I'm starting to agree with Mean Machine - it was too all rounded and became the "go-to" ship. If anything, I felt the nerf was most punishing to teams that bring double Pyra.

Muse did run the numbers and mention in fireside that the Pyra is the most used ship.

[Kamoba]

Being in a team that often brings double Pyra, my experience is that we die a lot more. Of cause, it wouldn't matter in a near-perfect engagement, but against a good team, how often does that happen?
The enemy knows that you will charge, they might get ambushed once, but that's about it. It is difficult to set up ambushes constantly the entire game.

I didn't like the nerf at first, but now I'm starting to agree with Mean Machine - it was too all rounded and became the "go-to" ship. If anything, I felt the nerf was most punishing to teams that bring double Pyra.

Muse did run the numbers and mention in fireside that the Pyra is the most used ship.

I think the exact number was "Pyra was used more than every other ship in the game, combined."

However I was to say, despite the Nerf, pyramidions are still putting up fights!

[geggis]

Been a while since I posted on these forums -- been away from Guns for some time -- but from my understanding of awkm, he's always trying to open up the decision space and stifle dominant strategies. There will always be the meta but the harder that is to find, the better. I can't believe 'meta--yawn... sorry drifted off there-- midion' is still a thing after all this time.

What I've read on this thread is a lot of people saying the Pyra should be this, and the Pyra should be that. I personally don't think any ship should be pinned down to a particular strategy or way of playing. If nerfing the hull health makes a captain think twice before charging in, rather than it being expected, then I think that's a good thing. Charging should be something the entire crew should be notified of and be totally prepared for. That opens up other considerations too: perhaps those two front guns shouldn't be all killing power now? Perhaps they could be disablers to buy you time as you close the gap? Covering fire and even flanking is going to be a lot more important now as well.

I'm not saying that the nerf itself is good, or even needed, but I think the intention of breaking up the vanguard/ram mentality and keeping people engaged with the possibilities of the Pyra rather than the effectiveness of one or two strategies, is a good thing.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Ideally all ships should have multiple options to adjust to and strategies they can employ.

The Pyra nerf effectively killed off a popular one. Heck I laughed as I watched a Pyra captain the other day ramming a galleon. He folded up like a classic squid and actually cost the match cause he wouldn't stop doing it. No way engineers could rebuild fast enough. If the ship is going to be so weak then the rebuild time needs to be adjusted, plain and simple.

Pyra basically has 3 main strategies. Kill build, disable build, range build. Then it has an assortment of mixed builds but lets face it, they aren't mainstream. The nerf effectively hurt both the kill and disable builds because they did involve charging and getting close.

Course Muse doesn't have to nerf ships to do damage like this. The squid took a good 50% hit on it's kill builds when they nerfed the light flak and added arming timers because some "delightful" misguided players wanted a viable 1000m range game and convinced Muse to do it. I said it back then, it would never be a meta and it was a stupid change. Still stand by that. There was nothing wrong with the LF before they did that. Adding the arming timer just turned it into a niche range gun and builds that employ it almost always rely on a ship to draw fire away so they can sit back and use it. It is also an "ideal" situation build. It sounds great on paper but in actual gameplay it can be beaten very easily.

[Dementio]

Despite the fact that Gilder is drifting off topic while apparantly forgetting that Rydr used to take double Pyramidion, Metamidion paired with a Hades/Light Flak and pretty much killed everything (yes, the Flak did a lot better than the Artemis in a whole lot of situations) and also apparantly forgetting that anything close range is also some kind of "ideal" situation build, because it has to get close first before doing any sort of damage and also apprantly ignoring the fact that the Light Flak inside arming time still does a considerable amount of damage and also apparantly being ignorant to the fact that he could just use a Banshee if he wanted an explosive gun in any range, without arming time and good arcs...

...I agree with the Pyramidion needing to be able to rebuild quicker. Before the nerf it already died in one clip of Mortar and Flak before the armor is rebuild, surviving anything now once the armor is destroyed is practically impossible. I also agree that the nerf hurt its most popular strategy, especially since the Pyramidion is one of three ships that novices are presented with and is the only one that can actually just move forward in a straight line and kill something.

[Tanya Phenole]

probably little bit more hp will fix the problem?