1.4.0 Pyra. Too much stick?

[michael.hauda]

Yup, we've found the worst ship in the game. It can't do anything well, every other one can, and already could

[michael.hauda]

I'll add this, Pyramidions aren't and weren't OP. Gat / Mortar combo was, I would've preferred a nerf to that

[ShadedExalt]

R.I.P Fist of the Unicorns; You will be missed dearly.

Pyra is described as a Vanguard; Vanguards wind up, charge in, and dish out almost as many punches as they take, while the speedier longer ranged allies open up.

Imagine a pitched airship battle between 2 Mercenary Factions; The one has a line of Pyras slowly accelerating towards the enemy, spewing fiery death before smashing into the line of enemy Junkers, who were trying to distract them from the Spires behind; The first team's Galleon duo open up, wreaking havoc and raining flechette-and-high-explosive filled death.

PROBLEM: The Junkers simply kill them before they close, because they have that little health.

Also, every ship has something it's good at; Galleon is sheer firepower and tanking, Squid is speed, Junker is almost 360° coverage, and an agile jack-of-all-trades, Mobula has ridiculous verticality, Goldfish is one of the best support ships in the game, and is fast, Spire kills things REALLY DAMN FAST.  Pyra... wallows through the air like a fat nerd, crumpling at the first sign of pain/damage while spewing verbal abuse from it's front.

What it should be is a ship that excels in heading straight for the enemy and giving them a little love-tap full of tanky-but-slow goodness to deal with while the Pyra's ally sneaks up/points guns...

As it stands, the Pyramidion is arguably the single worst ship in the game.  Time to buck the norm, here:

PYRA UP; PLZ BUFF

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Hey Pyra captains...I tried. I kept arguing at them not to nerf the pyra like this. Also for the Squid to not get more HP buffs but to go to pure speed and agility.

Just times like this...so sick of this...

[Kestril]

BRING BACK CHARGING RHINO PYRA.

Low acceleration, More armor, more perma, high top speed. Let it whether a barrage to close the distance to an opponent.

I tried. the new pyra is pretty unplayable, expecially with the new minno.

[Thomas]

It was never overpowered, just easy to crew. The squid has always been a great ship, just more difficult to crew on; which is where a lot of the overpowered/under-powered discussions come from.

I'm not sure why the hull took a hit along with the speed. I think most of us would have wanted it's turning mobility reduced, as opposed to it's forward speed/acceleration. I honestly underestimated how much the hull HP reduction would effect it, since I'm used to everyone sticking with gat-mortars. But you don't even need gat-mortars against it.


Ultimately I think the Pyra can still be functional, it's just going to be a tough adjustment for players to change how they fly it. Previously you could charge in and have an easy time keeping enemies in arc and tank it out a bit. Now you can charge in, but you'll have a harder time adjusting to keep enemies in arc, and you can't be as balls to the wall as your armor is so much more important to maintain.

[mRhetoric]

Well dang, Pyramidion, Squid, and Spire are the three ships I fly and I just don't get any of these changes. I thought they were all balanced before, now it seems like Pyramidion is trash and Squid and Spire are way too durable for their supposed roles.

Squid's low armor is actually a boon coupled with its high speed. You only have a short time to fire on the hull before the armor comes back up since it takes so few spanner hits to repair. Now it has a gigantic pool of permahull too, in addition to being faster. I don't understand making it both faster and more durable.

The Spire change seems ok, but I feel like double or triple gatling Spires with heavy flak are too strong at close/medium ranges now. It can focus the most firepower of any ship in the game, and now has the health to rumble. I enjoyed Spire before because it required team coordination to protect it, but now it looks like it can just brawl by itself.

I don't understand the Pyramidion nerf at all. It seems like the problem was never its durability or speed, but its firepower. It's supposed to be at the front, taking the beatings right? Pyramidion is differentiated from the other ships by having high armor, but dying quickly if the armor goes down. That's fine, but it doesn't even have as much armor as Junker, and now they took away 150 health. It should have gotten some armor in return at least. If their problem was metamidions, then why not nerf the gatling, or greased ammo? 

[DJ Logicalia]

I've been playing with the pyra a lot, post update. It's still (almost) the same ship it was before. You can't rush in headlong anymore the same why you used to be able to, but it's still a major threat. I think the nerf was unnecessary, but the ship is gonna keep on sailing 

[Omniraptor]

Have to agree new pyramidion is hilarious.

[ShadedExalt]

I've been playing with the pyra a lot, post update. It's still (almost) the same ship it was before. You can't rush in headlong anymore the same why you used to be able to, but it's still a major threat. I think the nerf was unnecessary, but the ship is gonna keep on sailing

Not the way it's supposed to, though.

It's JOB is to rush in headlong!  Strategically, but still.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Its a liability...no way in hell I'll fly a Pyra or fly with one.

Make charging ship into a tissue paper fighter yet make the traditional tissue paper fighter into a high speed tank. What I really want to know is...why is this still a thing? Why 2yrs later, we're still bitching about and fine tuning Pyras? The ship has been fine. It never needed all these nerfs. The other ships just needed to be fixed. But here we are constantly trying to make the Pyra weak enough. This is a lot of wasted dev time. With all this time, the other ships could have been fixed and buffed to counter Pyras better, like they used to be.

[Byron Cavendish]

My theory is that because Eric always struggled in the past with balancing gat/mortar, getting 'flak' for it, and then eventually just thinking it was so perfect, that he is way too scared to ever change it. He knows that it is the meta with a pyra, so he probably just thought it would be easier for him to change the pyra, then to mess with a meta he's 'tried' to balance.

He's been digging this weird trench for awhile. Why he doesn't realize the simple solution is turn the pyra back to being a tanky, slow to accelerate and turn ship to make it balanced (it should be like a charging bull, hard to stop once it's built up speed, hard to turn, but hits like a truck), I will never know. Or that a squid should rely on the old RPG thief concept of dodging and speed for the squid to survive. Or that a junker should never have been that tanky, but should also have a lot of speed to flirt in and out of arcs and combat (seriously, it's some wood, a tarp and scrap metal, it should be lighter and faster). And that a spire needs to be tankier in armor, not health, to be a gun platform. Just so much wrong with the current ships compared to their description and concept because he's been allowed free reign. Every ship is quickly becoming more like the other in stats, when they should be becoming more and more different for variety and meta variety.

Alas he has stubborn and confident as they come, and he will will never stop tweaking this game into weird and unnecessary directions.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

[Crafeksterty]

I dont know... Why does a ship have to be charging from an expected angle and still be able to kill even with shortrange weapons?
Heck even soley use the front guns...

Its time to be sneaky and use all 4 guns. By that, perhaps for large maps youl want long range front. Or disabling front for short range and then side weapons gat mortar when you get close?
I do agree with the Tanky, but super slow to start and harder to turn pyra.

[Kamoba]

I dont know... Why does a ship have to be charging from an expected angle and still be able to kill even with shortrange weapons?
Heck even soley use the front guns...

Its time to be sneaky and use all 4 guns. By that, perhaps for large maps youl want long range front. Or disabling front for short range and then side weapons gat mortar when you get close?
I do agree with the Tanky, but super slow to start and harder to turn pyra.

That's all good and well except to be sneaky means more effective engine power, which was nerfed too...
And the squids engine buff means the squid will be able to survive sneak attacks from pyramidions and turn guns into arc...

A pyra nerf was needed, but not the double nerf it was given...

Still hopefully tonight I can get my crew together and test pyramidion post nerf, but as it stands a squid will win 1v1 using gat banshee bi-fecter, because the pyra cant out tank the squid...