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New Testing, Balance! (Saturday 22nd)

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Mezhu:
Why the pyra nerfs?

Wundsalz:

--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on November 24, 2014, 01:18:38 pm ---Also, for the spire. I didnt think it actualy got a top speed Buff.

--- End quote ---
I'm almost  certain muse actually doesn't use hard-caps for ship velocities. At least I've never "felt" a sudden acceleration stop and I'm sure one can achieve higher top velocities with kerosene and moonshine. I'd be surprised if the max velocity values posted by muse occasionally are anything else but calculated theoretical maximum values based on an underlying equation of motion which looks similar to this: 0 = M*a + K*v with the acceleration vector a, the velocity vector v, M a matrix containing information about the ships mass and the moment of inertia(the resistance against rotation) and K a matrix filled with drag coefficients. M, a and K are the parameters muse altered in patches in the past. Regarding M I've read somewhere muse calculates the ships moment of inertia by approximating its body with an ellipsoid. Hence I think it to be likely the only parameter muse uses to alter M in patches is the ships mass. This has got an interesting implication: Whenever m is altered the ships moment of inertia is recalculated as well. This is very noticeable for the squid right now. muse reduced the weight and not only did this increase the ships acceleration, but also the ships ability to turn as its moment of inertia has been reduced by the mass change as well. Also the squid top speed should be faster now unless the longitudinal and vertical drag has been increased to counter this effect. Can you share the squids new angular acceleration acceleration and top speeds with us, Keyvias?

My impressions on the ship changes (unfortunately I did miss the event so these are only based on sandbox sessions):
Squid: I really like the ships improved agility and I dislike the increased hull. The squids key to survival should be movement and positioning, not tankieness.

Spire: I'd have to play the spire against actual opponents to see if these changes elevate the spire to be an option for competitive matches (which I'd like to see as a goal for spire changes). Personally I do believe the main problem of the spire is that it sucks at playing peek-a-boo with its enemy. It can't drift foward/backward at corners to open fire at the opponent and retreat when it gets focused due to the forward facing guns. It also can't pop up and hide behind structure on the ground as it exposes its giant balloon+hull way before its guns can shoot at anything. As a glass cannon the spire needs to get into cover somehow before bad stuff happens. I don't see how acceleration addresses these characteristics and think an increased turn acceleration or buff of the spires vertical movement would be better approaches to address these problems.

Pyra: Again I'd have to test this against actual players to get a good impression on its current state. However lower movement speed paired up with less offensive power (weaker rams due to reduced velocity) and defensive power (hull reduction) might be a tad too much. Personally I've seen the pyra at a pretty good place before the patch. It's likely a bit overused (statistically), but I'd mostly attribute that to the pyras easy crew-role-assignments rather than to some sort of superiority. Regarding the hull reduction: Pyras can probably be killed quite reliably with a single flak volley now. I don't think that's a good thing.

Squidslinger Gilder:
Pyras have been weak for awhile. Very easy to kill them. Used to be able to shift everyone to hull and tank on a Pyra quite well but then it changed and it just folds up easily. I seem to remember there was a reduction in something, then increase in weight, loss of turning ability, top speed increase to turn it into a lawn dart...we've had players up and retire or teams quit due to the changes.

Chatted with Zuka on many occasions and hes said it before that it was a factor which led to him ending his near nightly antics in GOIO. He then joined the Wolfpack who all up and quit when it was nerfed so, lot of like minded folk. Course real life happened anyways but before the changes he was a late night machine on GOIO like me. Brick, he's been similar. 1.2 was the first big blow, then the troll players tipped it over for him. He shifted to Junkers and found things to keep interest, but then nerfed. Little reason for him to log in for a game that he can't love anymore and put up with terrible people. Tried to get him into Munkers but its not his thing. Shame.

Best revision of the Pyra imo was before a lot of that. Before everyone insisted it had to be a super ramming ship lawn dart because it was pointy. Back then it was a flexible multirole fighter. It wasn't particularly great at ramming but it could do it. Was on par with the Goldfish in that respect. Run the risk of it becoming the go-to vessel by changing it back, but with the other vessels fixed, it wouldn't be without counters. Lot of ships could easily give a buffed Pyra, the run for it's money. 1.1 is a prime example of that. It was popular but had many counters. I tore them up all the time no matter what build it used.

Crafeksterty:

--- Quote from: Wundsalz on November 25, 2014, 04:23:07 am ---
Spire: I'd have to play the spire against actual opponents to see if these changes elevate the spire to be an option for competitive matches (which I'd like to see as a goal for spire changes).

--- End quote ---

I can safely say yes! Yes many times. And some more.

You will still need to learn proper crew managment, build and priority. But thats captain stuff. Just take one build, one way and youl learn more on your own.
If this spire buff will make final, i will tell you that it is major. Option for competetive? It always was, well for me. But now, i can certainly see more people (alot more) flying the spire. It will be able to whip around corners now, whip around back and forth. When i first felt the spire in sandbox i was giddy.

Richard LeMoon:
I like the Spire changes. I felt that I was able to effectively close-quarters dogfight a Squid and Goldfish on Labyrinth at the same time using moonshine and claw. Starting and stopping seems almost instant.

As for people leaving because their favorite one-trick-pony ship build gets nerfed.... I feel they are missing out on most of the game anyways, and were not very good in the first place. If you play the Hardcounter Lobbies of Icarus game, it shows a lack of adaptability on the fly.

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