Version 1.3.8 Hotfix 2 Release Notes

[Richard LeMoon]

- Player level in chat message will be the max level (of 3 classes), rather than current class level.

Why?

No, seriously, why? First you said this was for people to show off levels. Now they are forced to only show one. So.... why?

[Keyvias]

@Wundsalz,

That's a good debate (meaning something we're discussing in the office as well.)

Right now in my mind it's team vs ship.

Do we bring the entire team back to a lobby?
Pros:
Force the most players possible into a teamwork situation
Create a persistent feeling team (IE. people are less jerkish to people they see again)
Cons:
Creates bigger teams for the matchmaker to try to match
More chance for random players you don't want to keep

Do we bring the Ship back?
Pros:
Most communication is ship based.
Easier to Matchmake
Cons:
Lose out on team cohesion and getting a bad ally is frustrating as all hell.
If the crew form was bigger than a ship you lose your friend.

Issues with using previous crew form:
Players who join in single get kicked out of the group even if the group likes them. This would make it harder for people to keep a crew of people they like.

If you can find a way around that issue we can definitely add it to the team vs crew argument.

Between the other two choices, where do you guys stand?

[Mezhu]

How about you save each group of players that formed crews and split them back accordingly?

[Keyvias]

In that situation though if the form crew got a good fourth that game or simply a random group of singles liked working together, they'd be split apart.

If a friend joined onto you in the lobby, he wouldn't be returned with you when the game goes back to queue.

[Mezhu]

The latter can be bypassed by adding the friend who joined on you on that crew form, although I don't find it necessary. As for the random 4th, he can always be invited into the next crew formation which is more logical than assuming I want to play with him anyway.

[GeoRmr]

In that situation though if the form crew got a good fourth that game or simply a random group of singles liked working together, they'd be split apart.

If a friend joined onto you in the lobby, he wouldn't be returned with you when the game goes back to queue.

One person having to manually rejoin a crew form is better than 4 - 12 people having to manualy rejoin a crew form.

[redria]

How about...

Captains and crews get options at the end of a match on the waiting screen.

Crews get a button next to every person on their ship's name that will invite that person to their crew form. This will light up the other person's invite button and if they click it in return, the 2 players are linked, along with any other crew form either player had already.

Captains get these buttons for their crew, along with for their allied captain(s).

Basically when you end a match and it displays everyone in the game, everyone on your crew would have a button icon that will invite said person (and all of their crew form) to join you (and all of your crew form). If you are invited by someone on your crew, the button you have next to their name would light up in some fashion to indicate that said person has invited you. If you click that button as if you were inviting them, your crew forms will be merged. Captains have this option with their allied captains as well.

Crew forms after matches are determined by players on both sides indicating an interest in joining up again. The option to rematch or re-queue would be determined by the collective vote of each crew form.

[CitizenFry]

- Teaching achievement 8 was bugged, players should now be able to to track and earn "play X minutes with level 1-12 players" now.

Teaching achievement 6, which is the same as teaching 8 AFAICT, is still broken for me after today's patch. Pls fix.

[zlater75@hotmail.com]

Ship or Team ?

Think Redria has the same idea but not sure if i understood it. However imo that would be solved easy i.e. "captains perrogative". Let the players choose for the program instead of the program choosing for the player without knowing what players desire. That's the keyword here.. Desire.

On the crew formation bit do it shipwise but with a notification during a 20 second timewindow within it has to be replied to by a team captain if he wants his ship to join that teamformation or not.
If people want to play together a simple yes or accept.. if they don't care or don't want to a no or decline or when the timelimit is up then notification and possibility is off.
Same for crewmembers. If they are gone from the ship for some reason but might come back. Same window of time to be "greyed out" (like the "connecting" player in lobby) so that a captain can invite them easy by seeing their name (like recent if not a friend) on the ship so ships get full and captains can choose themselves if they want to go only ship or whole team.

[Richard LeMoon]

Well, this is how it plays out in most of my MM crew forms. Get a ship of people you like and a ship of people you would rather not play with. Leave crew form. Form new crew with people you invited. Get in new match. Get a fellow ship of people you do want to play with. Get some people on the opposite team that want to play with you, but end up in crew form. Everyone joins the new crew from making three ships. Continue until you have four ships full of people you like playing with, all provided by MM. Watch MM soil itself trying to figure out a good match to your four ship murder squad.

As for team, ship, or rematch, I say all three. Simple checkmark next to each ship you would like to play with again, including enemy team. Give those ships higher priority in the next MM round, giving them a higher, but not guaranteed chance at playing with/against with each other again. High skilled ships will not vote for low skilled ships often, so MM will get some desperately needed human input.

[KitKatKitty]

The battles are done and the dust is starting to settle. So far we’ve raised $15,848 for four great causes. 

YAY! This is amazing!!! Good job guys!

Changes:
- Novice levels have been changed to level 1-7.
- Non-novice players will no longer be sent to novice matches, regardless of wait time. This means novice matches will no longer be turned into normal matches.

Thank you for trying to improve this. I do think the level cap at 7 is pretty low. My suggestion would be 1-10 or even 1-14. But we will see how this plays out in the next week or so.

- Matchmaker will now value balanced matches more, as well as some additional balance enforcements. Players will be less likely to be sent to unbalanced matches, unless we deem that they have waited too long.

Thank you for listening and trying to also improve match making "balance". May I ask what Muse has deemed as "waiting too long"??

- System made matches (including custom matches that recruit from queue) will have an upper limit of 3 rematches, which will down by per rematch. If there are no more rematches, the end match vote will be replaced by an alert message, and everyone will return to lobby as crew forms. This will give the queue more people to draw from while still allowing players to rematch against great opponents.

Grrrr...Muse! You were doing so well till I got to this point...Yes I completely understand WHY this has been done...BUT I have a suggestion at the least because frankly I think most people see this as unwanted.
MY SUGGESTION: Limit 3 rematches to all matches made with queue BUT please please please take this off custom made matches!!!!! Now I'm asking this for a few reasons...obviously like many people have already stated this game is about finding good people you like to play with, good crews you like to play with and good team mates you like to play with. Sometimes my friends, my clan and even new randoms get in really good grooves and will play for hours!!! We really don't want to have to re queue every 3 matches.

BUT as a clan leader this actually concerns me even more and which is my main reason to ask for it taken off custom matches. If I have my whole clan in a custom made match (a. because there is no timed lobbies in custom made matches so we can talk strategy and other clan needed organization and b. we can host skirmishes or practices with other clans and c. no forced swapped lobbies) at no point in time am I going to want to have to re queue my whole clan every 3 matches....let alone re-queue my clan AND another clan if it's a skirmish or practice. THIS IS NOT HELPFUL to clans, clan practice or the competitive scene in Guns.

So at the very least I can understand having forced re queue after 3 matches in match made lobbies BUT NOT in custom matches.

- Player level in chat message will be the max level (of 3 classes), rather than current class level.

Ya can't say this makes any sense to me and I still want the levels back by our names.

Fixes:
- Some base system changes, which would allow the bounty event to show up again.
- Bug fix that caused captain in queue to be sent to crew slot or to a full lobby.
- Teaching achievement 8 was bugged, players should now be able to to track and earn "play X minutes with level 1-12 players" now.
- Ship theme objects stuck in the air randomly are now gone.
- Wrong language in Andrew Howell (Fyraxis) voice pack has been fixed
- Image for Desert Scrap has been fixed
- Custom match list scroll bar now scales proportionally to number of listed matches.
- Spotting visibility check reverted to less restrictive 1.3.7 behavior (yes it’s still occasionally weird)

YAY! Thanks for the fixes.

Also, From what I understand of Redria's idea I like.

[Caprontos]

I kinda don't wanna say it but I think crew-form is like the worst thing about the new system..

I am kinda bored with three low skill pilots.. and suddenly - a full ship of high skill players drops in and just ruins any chance the lobby had to be fun. I do consider pilot skill levels to be a bigger factor then a gunners or engineers.

I feel its needed to find a way to balance crew-form more then trying to solve how to keep novices out of my games..

Perhaps by making it so the MM won't drop a ship in to a lobby it just removes all balance in the first place... Don't we have some MMR thing that should be able to tell that the ship is just to much for the lobby?

I personally would rather wait longer to play and have more fair games, then have rushed matches that are not fun. Losing is fun if you had the opportunity to win. Its not fun when you can't win.

I don't agree with the "if your in the queue to long we just put you in any match".. Doesn't this just undermine MMR entirely? I can see I suppose adding an option to just put you in a match for the more impatient.. But if MM would be able to find me a balanced game if I wait longer.. Would that be so bad?

I wouldn't even mind having the option to join matches that have crew-formed ships unable to be put into..

How does MM work anyway? Does it add up the MMR of each team and make them equal? Does it try to make ships have similar MMR rating? Does it just put people in with similar mmr regardless of over all rating for a team?

Are any classes weighted? Like is a high skill pilot worth more to a team then a high level gunner?.. Or does the MM just view them as an equal?..


-I feel I should say I think MM is an improvement in some ways over the old list system.. and I  know there are many factors that are hard to account for when dealing with whats "balanced" some the MM probably can't look at.. but I feel like some times it isn't even trying..

[shaelyn]

hey KitKatKitty?  I think if you don't open up a custom match to matchmaker, the lobby will maintain.  it's only the matches opened to matchmaker to fill empty slots that will re-queue.  clan practices and tourneys should be fine.

someone correct me if I'm wrong - that's how I read the OP.

[Mezhu]

As for the level-in-chat thingie. How about it showed the sum of a player's levels instead?

[Spud Nick]

Ever sense MM was implemented I have been getting ships filled with my friends. Most of the ships I fly now will be all green (no not spring green) I also see more friends lurking in the spectator slots.

This is new for me. I have played this game a lot and have never seen this many friends in the lobby. I can only assume that this is MM at work.