Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Problems with matchmaking
Searaphim:
Haven't had a single fun match since the match making system has been implemented. Just sayin...
Schwalbe:
If I may... I'd like to say, that making any "leags" or something like that will make people go for some elite crap, and start thinking only about themselves. Honestly, guys. It's not what it's all about. I'm always being put with some guys, who don't know how to use microphone or chat, or keep having situations like today - galleon, 3 engies (5, 7 and my 12) + pilot (7), 2 of them on the upper board, and I'm completely alone on the lower deck, with 4 hwachas and engines which I need to repair constantly, because, well, why avoiding ambushes, or flying alone into the middle of the group of 3 enemy ships very close to each other? And of course - I keep telling them not to do so, BUT WHO CARES. I keep telling those guys that there is no need that both of them stay on upper deck, if even that can't help us to not being shot down, and I'm called selfish and rude, because "I want to play with my toys". Pardon fucking me, are you kidding me?
I can't even change ship, as I could do (and was doing) in 1.3.7, in cases I stumbled upon unreconstuctable idiots.
And honestly, you guys keep justifying yourselves by telling us that numbers are alright. Stop looking on cold numbers and join normal, matchmaker made match. This might look for you, in terms of maths, balanced, but the only result is keeping us frustrated and affraid, that there will surely come that one guy ignoring our teachings and orders, or even blame us for everything and calling us assholes, because we tell them when they are doing things wrong. It happened before, but somehow less frequently.
The other thing you achieved with you "well balanced" matches is fact that they last longer, and honestly... they are balanced. But ONLY paper. Seriously, today I had a match that ended with 12:9 or something like that. But you know what? It was so boring. It's not like I prefer slaughtering everything my spyglass see, but for Christ's sake, balance defined like that is deprived of any pleasure or thrill, leaving only frustration. And this was going like that for sooooo loooooong...
Oh, by the way. After mentioned match, in which crews of 3 ships abandoned the match, the new crews came, matchmaked I supposed. It was AFTER I joined the ship with my friends I couldn't join earlier because of the lack of free slot. So, as I understood, the matchmaker should take count on that we are quite good team and give us some worthy opponents...
...the coming match gave us like 9 kills, and 5 kills long kill streak. I mean, seriously?
And what's worse, you devs will STILL defend yourself with your numbers and statistics, and reports, still having your ears/eyes shoved up yer arse, pardon me, it annoys the hell out of me. It's not I want you guys to obey or whatever, but I want you to stop defensing yourself blindly and read what we try to tell you.
That's just wrong and sad.
Squidslinger Gilder:
--- Quote from: Dev Bubbles on October 28, 2014, 04:13:19 pm ---Yeah so that's really the rationale, and of course you're welcome to disagree. So there's what I would say. We'll call this an experiment. If we can definitely show that this helps balance, we can keep. Otherwise, we can roll back. If it doesn't work as we expected, then there's no point taking away from level display in all its glory. Hope this is a satisfactory response.
Thanks so much! Howard
--- End quote ---
Appreciate the replies Howard. I don't think a roll back is really necessary. You guys worked hard on this, and while its been a bit of a mess, there is a valid reason for it. You need the performance improvement, and also this is a step in the right direction for console play. Great, lets compromise and admit that MM is needed for these reasons.
Now, question, if the lobby list was such a huge offender, why do we have a friend's lobby list now? Shouldn't this be causing a performance hit that is just as bad? If it isn't a big hit, then lets build on it. Do more with custom games. They need to be able to be filled from MM and from list join. I thought what we'd get with MM was a custom feature where we could just make a lobby and sit in it till MM filled it. Sure there might be a lot of extra lobbies but that was the case in the past anyways because you had to so you could play 3v3 or 4v4. Now it seems we can't so I wonder outside of competitive what point is there? This should be changed. It also compromises because it allows a lobby to exist and utilize the MM system. So those that don't want to stare at a queue but actually work on ships or talk with MM joiners can do that. Social aspect restored!
That is just one simple step in the right direction. Figuring out how we can take the best from both worlds and make it happen.
Look through all the feedback. There are some very solid ideas presented not only here but in dev app. Some of them implemented would make MM much more easier to swallow. Howard if you guys can do that, then you've got my vote and probably quite a few others.
KitKatKitty:
--- Quote from: Dev Bubbles on October 28, 2014, 05:05:21 pm --- @KitKatKitty, ah, I see where the disconnect in this argument is now.
--- End quote ---
Just so we are clear Bubbles...this (at least on my end) is not an argument. I am solely giving feedback to help make Guns the best game it can be. This game is probably as much of my life as it is yours and the very last thing I want to happen to it is that it dies because the community leaves due to a lack of communication.
I can understand that you do not want people bailing out of matches because of simply the levels of the players in the lobby and that you want people to give the match making system and unbiased try but I think I have valid points I made when it comes to the levels allowing Veterans to see who in the lobby may need assistance and training at the very least. I would think that newer players leaving mid match because they are getting slaughtered is just as negative if not more than an older player leaving the lobby before match to try to prevent said slaughter. Or when newer players leave because they don't want to listen to the suggestions of Veterans. Am I wrong? I've seen both happen quite often since the new system has came out. It's discouraging too, to be the Veteran player that has the new players leave mid match...and frankly the reason I say new players because I've hardly seen Veteran players display this behavior. Also....can I point out Guns has had a level system for 2 years...why is it a problem all of a sudden?
--- Quote from: Dev Bubbles on October 28, 2014, 07:23:05 pm ---@Richard, another thing we're thinking about is a form of a league system, where you'll display your general ranking/level etc. This can give people a general idea, but not so specific as to create misinterpretation or misconception about balance. What do you think?
--- End quote ---
This I guess could be a compromise even though I would just like to use and show the levels right next to peoples names in lobbies like before.
--- Quote from: Searaphim on October 28, 2014, 08:01:13 pm ---Haven't had a single fun match since the match making system has been implemented. Just sayin...
--- End quote ---
The matches I have had the most fun in since the patch have been the custom ones that my friends and I balanced ourselves.
--- Quote from: Schwalbe on October 28, 2014, 08:01:51 pm ---I can't even change ship, as I could do (and was doing) in 1.3.7, in cases I stumbled upon unreconstuctable idiots.
And honestly, you guys keep justifying yourselves by telling us that numbers are alright. Stop looking on cold numbers and join normal, matchmaker made match. This might look for you, in terms of maths, balanced, but the only result is keeping us frustrated and affraid, that there will surely come that one guy ignoring our teachings and orders, or even blame us for everything and calling us assholes, because we tell them when they are doing things wrong. It happened before, but somehow less frequently.
--- End quote ---
I do have to agree with this. Numbers are not everything and I'm a numbers person so it's hard for me to say that. I perfectly understand HOW the match making system puts me on certain ships to balance the lobby however....I have to agree with Schwable here.
--- Quote from: Schwalbe on October 28, 2014, 08:01:51 pm ---The other thing you achieved with you "well balanced" matches is fact that they last longer, and honestly... they are balanced. But ONLY paper. Seriously, today I had a match that ended with 12:9 or something like that. But you know what? It was so boring. It's not like I prefer slaughtering everything my spyglass see, but for Christ's sake, balance defined like that is deprived of any pleasure or thrill, leaving only frustration. And this was going like that for sooooo loooooong...
--- End quote ---
If they are not a complete slaughter...the matches have been "closer" and longer BUT that's usually because there are players that aren't listening or not doing their job. I was in a 3v3 where a level 5 pilot was wondering around the match, not using mic, not using chat and not listening, while the level 43 pilot (the ship I was on) and level 35 pilot could only engage in 2v3 fights and try to fly around and protect the one ship flying off randomly so it wouldn't get killed over and over again. Might I add 5 people left mid match, all being lower level players. I would much rather have a close match where the majority of players all working to their highest capacity to play their best game ever because they are playing against players that are their "level" instead of because 1 or 2 Veterans are running around doing everything or trying to teach in between doing everything...isn't that what the "teaching" status is for and the novice matches? What many of the Veterans have came to is just making custom matches and not using the match making system.
Ruairi:
Let's be honest there are many problems with matchmaking, ranging from the simple such as the double gunner, to the more complex such as creating a balanced match.
In regards to the simple problem of the double gunner/pilot it is amazing how long this has gone unresolved. In the previous patch/hotfix for whatever reason the gunner and engineer icons have been merged together. Insinuating that there is an equal need for "gunners" as there is for engineers when in truth the gunner is a binary number... 1 or 0. (By the way can someone please explain to me why the A.I. gunner still exists?) Now in regards to the second pilot I don't even know how this is a thing...? Other's have suggested in the past that by blocking anyone that isn't in the captain position from using the pilot class this could be resolved. This is a step in the right direction, however I would add that the only positions available on a ship are the recommended load outs chosen by the captain of that particular ship. In addition to this I would also add that in lobby, a person cannot change to a second gunner without the first gunner acknowledging this change and being swapped to engineer as a result.
In regards to balance, I don't believe this can really be achieved as long as the "rematch" option is a feature. This is because it limits the player pool available, hence veterans are spread out over various matches often crushing less experienced players on "stacked" teams. I would also like to add there are numerous ways in which this community could be improved very easily. Such as creating an icon new players could display showing that they are willing to learn from Veterans willing to divulge information on the game. Team Fortress 2 allows players to receive a coach if they wish... But in a game that thrives on teamwork, there is little done to help new players develop so that they may achieve/see endgame... This could also explain why GoI player activity fluctuates so aggressively...
In all honesty I believe there is a large community of players invested in this game who want to see it prosper. However with the number of solutions and ideas that are posted that fail to see implementation or even acknowledgement, I'd wager the future of this game is surely threatened... Especially with Veteran players slowly being BURNT out :/
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