Author Topic: New gun: no gun  (Read 17061 times)

Offline BlackenedPies

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New gun: no gun
« on: August 07, 2014, 09:48:45 pm »
Because new players are often fascinated by the flare gun/mine launcher and may prefer to shoot it over the offensive weapons on the ship; and because it can be impossible to convince them not to shoot it, I propose a gun that takes up a gun slot but cannot be interacted with. This will force the gunners to shoot and the engineers to repair and make the captain's job a whole lot easier. 

Offline Ultimate Pheer

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 11:41:36 pm »
This seems... Baffling, truly.

If there were passive buffs in exchange for not equipping the gun (As there would have to be to ensure that the No Gun saw any use on all but the most niche ships) then there would likely be a LOT of powerful new builds relying on a lack of guns in places.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 12:06:26 am »
The only use for the No Gun would be to not have any use- hence its point. Pilots flying AI ships (notably pyramidions) put flare guns on the side so the AI only shoot the front guns. I can't tell you how many times gunners have preferred the flares to the main guns, or how many times the main engineer has neglected repairs and focused on shooting the side guns- often giving away my position or letting the hull die. 

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 12:28:01 am »
Dang I thought this was going to be for a pilot tool which you could shoot powder monkeys with that puts a giant "NO!" on their screen when they try doing something stupid.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 01:16:21 am »
Crew not following orders is a separate problem from loadouts and balance. Crippling your ship is not the best way to deal with it.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 03:03:51 am »
I would rather cripple my ship and not have side guns than have an extra variable for my crew to worry about. Most importantly, the side guns take valuable time away from repairs. I don't think my suggestion will catch on but I can still hope.

I like the "NO!" pilot tool idea. Hmmm I guess I don't need hydrogen....

Better idea: buff V commands!

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 03:30:03 am »
So many fun builds to be made with more than 2 guns though.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 05:16:03 am »
With an AI pyra I think it's better to have an AI engi (who might repair) than to have side guns. This problem would be fixed if an extra AI command was added.

Or just make the flare gun less fascinating to novice players. Make it really boring so they don't shoot or repair it.

The flare gun is my second favorite gun but it got nerfed and the reload time is now 20 seconds. While this might theoretically make the flare gun boring, it has not worked. My powder monkeys and I will testify.

Flare buff petition!

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 10:07:34 am »
Did you use the signal command "MAN THE FORE GUNS!" this helps a lot.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 10:19:04 am »
Unfortunately, players are often unaffected by commands. If only there was a STOP DOING THAT command...

Signal commands need a buff

Offline Queso

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 10:24:20 am »
Have you tried whacking the V key with a buff hammer?

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 10:26:53 am »
I usually bring a wrench as a pilot tool to repair, but I'll try that

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 11:04:43 am »
For reference, AI will never shoot flares or mine launchers. If you're running an AI ship put those on slots you don't want.

Offline obliviondoll

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 11:22:56 am »
Problem:

You're playing in pub matches.

Solutions:

1. Deal with it.
2. Get heavily involved with the competitive community and abandon pub matches.
3. Suggest an option that weakens your ships considerably for a benefit that will only even potentially play out in a very niche situation in pub matches, and will never be a good idea for competitive play.
4. Hope for a competent crew and complain when you don't get it.
5. Ragequit from Guns of Icarus Online.

They are, of course, ranked in order from best option to worst. Analysis of why follows:

1. Simply dealing with this kind of situation helps a person to grow. Many jobs require you to deal with customers or to manage employees. In both situations, the task can often be described as trying to make a stupid person listen to you and do something they have no interest in doing regardless of how it will benefit them. As such, being patient with similar situations in gaming is actually helping you develop good interpersonal and management skills.

2. Now that the game is officially part of MLG, there's a chance that successful involvement in the competitive community could lead to a paying job playing the game. Who wouldn't want to be paid real money to play Guns of Icarus? I know I would. There are a few flaws though. If you're lacking in friends who play, or if you wouldn't trust most of them with a full complement of guns on your ship, then you might be out of luck on improving your situation. Also, sticking to competitive play requires a measure of dedication that might be out of reach for some players. Another problem is that by avoiding less disciplined people, you're setting yourself up to be less competent in difficult social situations in the real world, and avoiding a chance to learn effective management tricks that this game can help to teach you. Most competitive players also play pub matches, and the more difficult situation of dealing with randoms can help them coordinate even better when they're working with their teammates.

3. While this may help resolve the issue on some levels, it's a "band aid for a broken arm" type solution that doesn't address the real issue. There's also a big risk of a feature like this backfiring. Many stupid players are going to find ways to be stupid no matter how much you limit their options. If you're lucky, they'll pull out their spyglass or jump on the helm and burn out the engines with random piloting tools any time you let go. If you're unlucky, they might hijack the main gun and prevent the gunner from having access because you didn't give them any other toys to play with. If the whole concept backfires, people who end up on a ship with a "no gun" gun slot might mutiny. You could end up with multiple crew members doing nothing but leaping repeatedly to their deaths and respawning again until you die and have to start again. They might leave your ship, or stay and threaten to keep doing the same thing until you give them back "their" guns. You might also have them trying to be "helpful" by loading the few remaining weapons with inappropriate ammo types ("Lochnagar Flamethrowers are awesome! HONEST!"). Some of these deliberate trolling actions can come about unintentionally at times too - if you're with someone who's legitimately that bad at the game.

4. While this is slightly less of a "cry to the devs" approach than 3, it's going to cast you in a bad light. Other players will hear your crew having fun, and you ranting and raving about how they suck and you should have done so much better if they were competent. If you're in a public match, having fun should be the primary goal. If you're not having fun, switch to another room or take a break.

5. This is clearly not an option I condone. I included it only for completeness. While theoretically possible, I can't conceive of any situation where it might actually be a valid option to consider against any of the other possibilities. As it involves an indefinite period of not playing Guns of Icarus Online, there is no redeeming factor to make this theoretical solution look like anything but a bad decision. Please DO NOT TRY IT.

EDIT: Fixed typoes
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 11:25:34 am by obliviondoll »

Offline Dementio

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Re: New gun: no gun
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 09:03:59 am »
Yeah man, just deal with all these new players that have no idea what they are doing and just play the game by dying repeatedly, because your gunner is not shooting and the engineers are not repairing more important components! Isn't pointless playing fun?

Seriously though. If you tell them in the lobby what their job is in beforehand and then you repeat it in-game, these newer players usually get the idea and do what you want, even if not at perfect effiency. If you tell them in lobby and they are not listening to you and in-game neither, you can leave the lobby/game, unless you don't care about the victory, then you can stay and do whatever suits you, like exploring the map.

A gun slot that nobody can use is not a good idea to deal with unresponsive players. If they don't wanna listenand do their job, just don't get into engagements and make it as boring for them as possible. Maybe they will rage quit before you do.
It would however be different if your ship would get a permament passive buff when you sacrifice your gun slot. Maybe something like 10% better acceleration in all fields?