Guns Of Icarus Online
Info => Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: BlackenedPies on August 07, 2014, 09:48:45 pm
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Because new players are often fascinated by the flare gun/mine launcher and may prefer to shoot it over the offensive weapons on the ship; and because it can be impossible to convince them not to shoot it, I propose a gun that takes up a gun slot but cannot be interacted with. This will force the gunners to shoot and the engineers to repair and make the captain's job a whole lot easier.
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This seems... Baffling, truly.
If there were passive buffs in exchange for not equipping the gun (As there would have to be to ensure that the No Gun saw any use on all but the most niche ships) then there would likely be a LOT of powerful new builds relying on a lack of guns in places.
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The only use for the No Gun would be to not have any use- hence its point. Pilots flying AI ships (notably pyramidions) put flare guns on the side so the AI only shoot the front guns. I can't tell you how many times gunners have preferred the flares to the main guns, or how many times the main engineer has neglected repairs and focused on shooting the side guns- often giving away my position or letting the hull die.
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Dang I thought this was going to be for a pilot tool which you could shoot powder monkeys with that puts a giant "NO!" on their screen when they try doing something stupid.
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Crew not following orders is a separate problem from loadouts and balance. Crippling your ship is not the best way to deal with it.
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I would rather cripple my ship and not have side guns than have an extra variable for my crew to worry about. Most importantly, the side guns take valuable time away from repairs. I don't think my suggestion will catch on but I can still hope.
I like the "NO!" pilot tool idea. Hmmm I guess I don't need hydrogen....
Better idea: buff V commands!
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So many fun builds to be made with more than 2 guns though.
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With an AI pyra I think it's better to have an AI engi (who might repair) than to have side guns. This problem would be fixed if an extra AI command was added.
Or just make the flare gun less fascinating to novice players. Make it really boring so they don't shoot or repair it.
The flare gun is my second favorite gun but it got nerfed and the reload time is now 20 seconds. While this might theoretically make the flare gun boring, it has not worked. My powder monkeys and I will testify.
Flare buff petition!
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Did you use the signal command "MAN THE FORE GUNS!" this helps a lot.
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Unfortunately, players are often unaffected by commands. If only there was a STOP DOING THAT command...
Signal commands need a buff
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Have you tried whacking the V key with a buff hammer?
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I usually bring a wrench as a pilot tool to repair, but I'll try that
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For reference, AI will never shoot flares or mine launchers. If you're running an AI ship put those on slots you don't want.
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Problem:
You're playing in pub matches.
Solutions:
1. Deal with it.
2. Get heavily involved with the competitive community and abandon pub matches.
3. Suggest an option that weakens your ships considerably for a benefit that will only even potentially play out in a very niche situation in pub matches, and will never be a good idea for competitive play.
4. Hope for a competent crew and complain when you don't get it.
5. Ragequit from Guns of Icarus Online.
They are, of course, ranked in order from best option to worst. Analysis of why follows:
1. Simply dealing with this kind of situation helps a person to grow. Many jobs require you to deal with customers or to manage employees. In both situations, the task can often be described as trying to make a stupid person listen to you and do something they have no interest in doing regardless of how it will benefit them. As such, being patient with similar situations in gaming is actually helping you develop good interpersonal and management skills.
2. Now that the game is officially part of MLG, there's a chance that successful involvement in the competitive community could lead to a paying job playing the game. Who wouldn't want to be paid real money to play Guns of Icarus? I know I would. There are a few flaws though. If you're lacking in friends who play, or if you wouldn't trust most of them with a full complement of guns on your ship, then you might be out of luck on improving your situation. Also, sticking to competitive play requires a measure of dedication that might be out of reach for some players. Another problem is that by avoiding less disciplined people, you're setting yourself up to be less competent in difficult social situations in the real world, and avoiding a chance to learn effective management tricks that this game can help to teach you. Most competitive players also play pub matches, and the more difficult situation of dealing with randoms can help them coordinate even better when they're working with their teammates.
3. While this may help resolve the issue on some levels, it's a "band aid for a broken arm" type solution that doesn't address the real issue. There's also a big risk of a feature like this backfiring. Many stupid players are going to find ways to be stupid no matter how much you limit their options. If you're lucky, they'll pull out their spyglass or jump on the helm and burn out the engines with random piloting tools any time you let go. If you're unlucky, they might hijack the main gun and prevent the gunner from having access because you didn't give them any other toys to play with. If the whole concept backfires, people who end up on a ship with a "no gun" gun slot might mutiny. You could end up with multiple crew members doing nothing but leaping repeatedly to their deaths and respawning again until you die and have to start again. They might leave your ship, or stay and threaten to keep doing the same thing until you give them back "their" guns. You might also have them trying to be "helpful" by loading the few remaining weapons with inappropriate ammo types ("Lochnagar Flamethrowers are awesome! HONEST!"). Some of these deliberate trolling actions can come about unintentionally at times too - if you're with someone who's legitimately that bad at the game.
4. While this is slightly less of a "cry to the devs" approach than 3, it's going to cast you in a bad light. Other players will hear your crew having fun, and you ranting and raving about how they suck and you should have done so much better if they were competent. If you're in a public match, having fun should be the primary goal. If you're not having fun, switch to another room or take a break.
5. This is clearly not an option I condone. I included it only for completeness. While theoretically possible, I can't conceive of any situation where it might actually be a valid option to consider against any of the other possibilities. As it involves an indefinite period of not playing Guns of Icarus Online, there is no redeeming factor to make this theoretical solution look like anything but a bad decision. Please DO NOT TRY IT.
EDIT: Fixed typoes
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Yeah man, just deal with all these new players that have no idea what they are doing and just play the game by dying repeatedly, because your gunner is not shooting and the engineers are not repairing more important components! Isn't pointless playing fun?
Seriously though. If you tell them in the lobby what their job is in beforehand and then you repeat it in-game, these newer players usually get the idea and do what you want, even if not at perfect effiency. If you tell them in lobby and they are not listening to you and in-game neither, you can leave the lobby/game, unless you don't care about the victory, then you can stay and do whatever suits you, like exploring the map.
A gun slot that nobody can use is not a good idea to deal with unresponsive players. If they don't wanna listenand do their job, just don't get into engagements and make it as boring for them as possible. Maybe they will rage quit before you do.
It would however be different if your ship would get a permament passive buff when you sacrifice your gun slot. Maybe something like 10% better acceleration in all fields?
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i know this problem must exist because people keep bringing it up on the forums, but i seriously dont run into these kinds of players all that often, certainly not enough to call it a problem.
are you being abrasive to new players that join your ship? you cant expect them to instantly understand everything ever and do it perfectly; you have to take a little time to explain what they should be doing and the reasons for them doing that. explaining the reasons and mechanics behind what they are doing is very important, it is not a hard game to learn it is just different and people need some time to adjust. you cant just order people around because you are some imaginary captain, it wont work. treat people like they are people and they will be able to function as a crew member 9 times out of 10. Frankly, i think the novice matches did alot of damage to the GoI:O community as a whole. Before novice matches most players were understanding of inexperience and not hostile to someone who clearly has never played the game before or has played very little, but that is a discussion for another thread.
that being said occasionally you do run into someone who despite everything will be a dedicated pain in the ass. but that is true of all online games and is a symptom of the platform not the playerbase.
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I run into the problem of gunners shooting flares when they join during the match, not in the lobby. I tell engineers to not shoot the flares while there are repairs, and to not focus on repairing them but it doesn't always work. About a week ago I left a game because players joined during the match and only shot the flares. Once I was on an AI spire and a gunner joined and only shot the flare. Often when newer players join in during the match they immediately get on the flares and start shooting.
Trolling is unavoidable and I was joking about not having a gun, although it would be very useful for me. I like side flares because of the wide arc and fast turning and that the main engi can quickly set 20 fire stacks.
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W-why would a Gunner stick themselves on the Flare and not shoot ANYTHING else?
Removing a gun wouldn't help, because those players are bad.
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Fair question Pheer.
Removing guns would solve the problem of not using the right guns and it would increase engineer efficiency.
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God, this game must be boring the way that you play it. Pyramidion. Two guns only. I wonder which two front guns you use........
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AI pyra is my favorite AI ship, but it's not the best AI ship. My fav is double carronade now that AI actually shoot balloon. Against a piercing-explosive pyra I just use gat mortar.
I gotta say merc carro is very effective against goldfish and galleons (on dunes and fjords), especially if you have an ally with explosives. I wish lesmok carro didn't suck though. I like carro artemis with good aim.
But yeah, I like breaking balloons and I love carros.
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I'd love the option of a no gun for some ships. Be part of the ship customization. Too many times have I watched my hull go ignored because the main engineer couldn't resist shooting the flamer. Perhaps not let every gun placement be made possibly empty and be arbitrarily meta in restrictions. It would certainly help with ai herding. No gun on the front of a junker might make ai almost effective on that long thin ship, closing off the top wing weapons on a mobula may help with ai herding as well.
1. Simply dealing with this kind of situation helps a person to grow. Many jobs require you to deal with customers or to manage employees. In both situations, the task can often be described as trying to make a stupid person listen to you and do something they have no interest in doing regardless of how it will benefit them. As such, being patient with similar situations in gaming is actually helping you develop good interpersonal and management skills
Christ man we get it. Only some immature child could ever get frustrated in a game where team work is so factored into he game that most ships can't function without 4 people pulling in the same direction. What an abrasive jerk!
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1. Simply dealing with this kind of situation helps a person to grow. Many jobs require you to deal with customers or to manage employees. In both situations, the task can often be described as trying to make a stupid person listen to you and do something they have no interest in doing regardless of how it will benefit them. As such, being patient with similar situations in gaming is actually helping you develop good interpersonal and management skills
Christ man we get it. Only some immature child could ever get frustrated in a game where team work is so factored into he game that most ships can't function without 4 people pulling in the same direction. What an abrasive jerk!
Saying "we get it" in response to basically my first comment along those lines is pretty senseless. Pick out one of the several LATER threads where I made similar arguments against BlackenedSkies and his purely selfish attempts to redesign the game to suit him to the exclusion of other players. And even then, I'm making similar points because he's using similar arguments in all his threads. They're different topics, but with the same rationale, and as such, it's perfectly reasonable to EXPECT similar counter-arguments showing up across them all.
As for your targeting of my attitude instead of my argument, at no point in this OR any of the other threads have I said that it's not reasonable to get frustrated. I'm quite happy to admit that I get frustrated with other people - both in team-oriented games AND when I'm working or just out there in the real world dealing with people. The point I'm making is that sometimes it's better to just shrug it off, move on, or back yourself out of the situation for a while.
You aren't the only living, breathing human on the team in an online team-based game. When you're in a management position, the people under your command are still human. When you're dealing with customers, THEY'RE human too. You aren't managing AIs that you can reasonably expect to obey every stupid command you give them. Sometimes you're managing people who might think that jumping off the side of a bridge is a bad idea, even if you're jumping with them. Maybe they noticed you got a bungie cord and they didn't. Maybe they're just scared of heights and you should give them a different job, like issuing bungie cords to the rest of the team.
Knowing how to deal with a situation is VERY different from never getting frustrated about it. Sometimes, the best solution is to step aside. If you can't cope with that much stupid, put yourself in a different situation. If you're getting lots of idiots on your ship all day, either take a break or get some friends to join instead. If you're facing one particularly annoying player and can't deal with them any more, quit the lobby and try another.
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"BlackenedSkies and his purely selfish attempts to redesign the game to suit him to the exclusion of other players"
hmm...
I'm assuming you're referring to my "crew joining during matches" thread where I make a few suggestions.
1. limit extra pilots/gunners joining mid match
2. accepting/rejecting loadouts of players joining mid match
3. allowing players to choose if they want all AI
4. restrict novice players to novice games
1 I don't think anyone would object to restricting extra gunners/pilots during a match
2 this would ENCOURAGE players to join with spanner mallet and fire suppression LIKE THEY SHOULD
3 fair point.
4 I would encourage all players to start with novice games. I see level 1 players with no matches start playing in regular matches. I think we would all agree that beginners need practice in novice before really playing the game. This is a common feature in a lot of games where the beginners have a chance to learn mechanics before being thrust into the game with the rest of the players. Yes there are tutorials, but they're only tutorials and don't give a real sense of the game. I think that a player without any matches should start with novice.