Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

I think this is being gone about the wrong way.  If we really want gunners, I posit we remove ammo from all the other classes.  It may ruin the 3-1-1, 1-3-1, 1-1-3 symmetry, but if you are really looking to make gunners a more viable class, this is the best way I see to do it.

[SirNotlag]

I think this is being gone about the wrong way.  If we really want gunners, I posit we remove ammo from all the other classes.  It may ruin the 3-1-1, 1-3-1, 1-1-3 symmetry, but if you are really looking to make gunners a more viable class, this is the best way I see to do it.

Well thats the worst way to go about it! that just makes gunners mandatory by making it so only one type of crew build can be formed and takes all the fun out of the game. Its not like gunners are some useless smucks here that actively detract from a crew they are useful if you know how to use them. Granted there are some guns only good with one ammo but there are also guns that need the multiple ammo types to have full potential ie hades, light flak, and practically all the heavy guns.

Regardless removing ammo from other classes would not fix gunners it would break the game.

[DJ Tipz N Trix]

I think this is being gone about the wrong way.  If we really want gunners, I posit we remove ammo from all the other classes.  It may ruin the 3-1-1, 1-3-1, 1-1-3 symmetry, but if you are really looking to make gunners a more viable class, this is the best way I see to do it.

Well thats the worst way to go about it! that just makes gunners mandatory by making it so only one type of crew build can be formed and takes all the fun out of the game. Its not like gunners are some useless smucks here that actively detract from a crew they are useful if you know how to use them. Granted there are some guns only good with one ammo but there are also guns that need the multiple ammo types to have full potential ie hades, light flak, and practically all the heavy guns.

Regardless removing ammo from other classes would not fix gunners it would break the game.

If you really need 2 guns with special ammo, you take 2 gunners.  If you need one, take one gunner.  If your ship can run just fine without special ammo, take no gunners.  I don't think it would break the game.  I think it is something to think about.

[Tanya Phenole]

If you really need 2 guns with special ammo, you take 2 gunners.  If you need one, take one gunner.  If your ship can run just fine without special ammo, take no gunners.  I don't think it would break the game.  I think it is something to think about.

That will ruin the initial idea of teamwork as highest priority. Class does not means that your role is strict , we have pilots, rebuilding hull and engines in critical situation, gunners as main repair force for guns and helping on rebulds as well (no engines-no arcs - no shooting). And engineers, able to do everything.

Currently, game has 10 pilot tools, 8 gunner ammo types and only 6 engineer tools. 2 of the pilot tools designed specially for engineers and gunners. Adding 2 ammo types, which will be useful  for engineers, and engineering tools useful for gunners and pilots, would help to correct the class balance.
 
However, this topic is dedicated to ammo types ,  not to rebalancing engineer's tools.

My suggestion:

Phosphoric shot.
+70% projectile speed
-20% rotation speed
clip size reduced to 1.
Highlights the component being shot, so the enemy ship is not shaking the spot. Also, the halo of lighted components helps pilot to watch the movement of the enemy ship in blind zones.
Puts several stacks of fire to the gun being shot from and to damaged coponent as well. The lightning effect stays for 8-10 seconds.

How to exploit:
- by gunners, who can instantly extinguish their gun by heatsink clip. This mostly related to heavy flak gunners, who don't have much use before armor breaks. (weapons, generally used by gunners, like Typhon, Lumberjack, Manticore, Hades  require only 2 ammo type for tactic advance, so probably the third slot can be taken by Phosporic clip, which gives huge advance).

- by pilots having light guns near helm, like Galleon or Spire. Unlike taking flare gun, this does not makes the gun slot itself completely useless in terms of damage. Helps the crew to do spots, helps himself to prevent enemy ship going blind zone  in brawl. Makes harder to shake spot by cloud, does not influences to shaking spot under cover.

- completely useless for engineers because, well, -1 person gunning on the ship. Very few ship build have no-shooting engineers. Also can't be used for Pyramidion's maindeck due to lowered rotation speed.

[Koali]

How about an ammo type to counter chemspray, i.e. wash it off? Some kind of water shots, perhaps? These would probably help the opposing team by removing fire stacks, though. How about some sort of chemical solvent-type shot? Either a spray or a bomb-like projectile (like a big glorified water balloon). It could vary between weapons. (Big shot on most guns, but carronades, gatlings, and flamers get a spray)

Chemical Solvent
Removes the effects of Chemspray
Does only 50% damage <-- that can change for balance
as a spray -60% ammo capacity
as a bomb Only 1 shot

OH GOD, FLAMETHROWERS THAT REMOVE CHEMSPRAY

[Tanya Phenole]

How about an ammo type to counter chemspray, i.e. wash it off? Some kind of water shots, perhaps? These would probably help the opposing team by removing fire stacks, though. How about some sort of chemical solvent-type shot? Either a spray or a bomb-like projectile (like a big glorified water balloon). It could vary between weapons. (Big shot on most guns, but carronades, gatlings, and flamers get a spray)

Chemical Solvent
Removes the effects of Chemspray
Does only 50% damage <-- that can change for balance
as a spray -60% ammo capacity
as a bomb Only 1 shot


OH GOD, FLAMETHROWERS THAT REMOVE CHEMSPRAY

1) we already have amazing thing which balances chemspray. Time.
2) "Chemical solvent" is kind of silly name from terms of chemistry... Cause lots of them are highly flammable, and huge amount are completely impossibe to set fire with.  The ones which are flammable are usually evaporise really fast to use them as a fuel for gun. 
3) in current game balance flamethrowers is a threat even for chemsprayed ship.  Pings/seconds spend on gunning/carronades which destroy spray status

[macmacnick]

Want to avoid flamers? Go mid-long range as a ship build. Or do a Long and short range junker. there. Fixed.


Also, how-about an ammo?
Grape Shot
+20% ammo capacity
+25% spread
Each projectile shot splits into 5 fragments, dealing damage over a greater area, but consequently, each fragment does only 20% of the normal damage.
-40% rotation speed,
-30% projectile speed.


Does all damage across many components, but is mostly viable for close range, due to enhanced spread.

[Richard LeMoon]

Paint.

Damage: 0

Range: 50%

Ignition chance reduced to 0%

Why? Painting the enemy Galleon pink with a flamethrower is funny.

[Koali]

Paint.

Damage: 0

Range: 50%

Ignition chance reduced to 0%

Why? Painting the enemy Galleon pink with a flamethrower is funny.

This could be one of the best ideas up here. I mean, they'd be like "Oh noes, they haz fire! CHEMSPRAY ALL THE THINGS!" Only to be covered with paint.

1) we already have amazing thing which balances chemspray. Time.
2) "Chemical solvent" is kind of silly name from terms of chemistry... Cause lots of them are highly flammable, and huge amount are completely impossibe to set fire with.  The ones which are flammable are usually evaporise really fast to use them as a fuel for gun. 
3) in current game balance flamethrowers is a threat even for chemsprayed ship.  Pings/seconds spend on gunning/carronades which destroy spray status

To counter:
1) What about those impatient players who want to shoot things right now?
2) The"Chemical Solvent" would essentially be glorified water. Water is a common solvent, and just about anything could be described as 'chemical' in one way or another (I think). I just thought it would sound better than "Water Balloons."
3) I don't have any idea what to say here.

[Verbose Mode]

How about an ammo type to counter chemspray, i.e. wash it off? Some kind of water shots, perhaps? These would probably help the opposing team by removing fire stacks, though. How about some sort of chemical solvent-type shot? Either a spray or a bomb-like projectile (like a big glorified water balloon). It could vary between weapons. (Big shot on most guns, but carronades, gatlings, and flamers get a spray)

Chemical Solvent
Removes the effects of Chemspray
Does only 50% damage <-- that can change for balance
as a spray -60% ammo capacity
as a bomb Only 1 shot

OH GOD, FLAMETHROWERS THAT REMOVE CHEMSPRAY

There is another thread running about a "water cannon" light gun concept that extinguishes fires and pushes other ships, perhaps "washing off" Chemspray would be an interesting feature for the gun, but not an ammo type. I think Chemspray is balanced as it is.

[Koali]

There is another thread running about a "water cannon" light gun concept that extinguishes fires and pushes other ships, perhaps "washing off" Chemspray would be an interesting feature for the gun, but not an ammo type. I think Chemspray is balanced as it is.

I'd like to see that. Could you direct me to that thread?

[Verbose Mode]

I'd like to see that. Could you direct me to that thread?

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4382.0.html Ought to link properly.

Back on topic, the earlier ideas about guns spawning "unloaded" and default ammo being something you would have to take with you seemed like a fantastic idea to me. Of course, it would mean changing the reload mechanics to remember the last ammo selected, but very few people would be complaining.

[SirNotlag]

I for one would complain!

 For one I am extremely against some form of crummy scavenger ammo becoming the default OR the idea of having no ammo in the guns when a ship spawns as it leaves you too vulnerable if the enemy is in your spawn point and you would get steam rolled without being able to fight back. But would it be possible to have it so that the weapons wait before they decide their ammo like as soon as an someone jumps on the gun the ammo in their first slot is the one selected as if it was there all along.

Ex: ship spawns, engineer with greased runs over to gun gets on, immediately starts shooting greased rounds at the birds cause they looked at him funny. Eventually they re-spawn gunner carrying heavy, lesmok, and charged runs over to gun, gets on, it now has heavy in it, if he wanted lesmok he has to reload and switch to lesmok, but heavy is in the gun if he needs to shoot it immediately.

In this system I also feel it would be best if the last ammo that was loaded into it so if the gunner left the weapon to load itself it would have put heavy back into the gun.

[HamsterIV]

How about some trickshot ammo types?

Split shot (spawns two bullets at an offset of 5 degrees) reduces damage for each bullet by 30%
Party shot (explodes into confetti and streamers)
Spiral shot (bullet travels in a corkscrew manner)
Dub shot (replaces normal weapon sounds with Dubstep beat)
Smoke screen shot (emits a non tar cloud that breaks line of sight)
Ghost shot (shot ignores hull and balloon collides and only hits components)

[Verbose Mode]

I for one would complain!

 For one I am extremely against some form of crummy scavenger ammo becoming the default OR the idea of having no ammo in the guns when a ship spawns as it leaves you too vulnerable if the enemy is in your spawn point and you would get steam rolled without being able to fight back. But would it be possible to have it so that the weapons wait before they decide their ammo like as soon as an someone jumps on the gun the ammo in their first slot is the one selected as if it was there all along.

I understand your point, but I think the "steam rolling spawns" would be negated by the fact that captains always have multiple spawn points to choose from, and most wise captains spawn farther away to give crews prep time anyway. Spawning right on top of an enemy and instantly unloading a Hwatcha would not be an option because a gunner would have to load it first, so it removes the factor of having a fresh ship suddenly pop into a fight from thin air.

Besides, I think loading guns would simply be an extension of the normal "rolling into battle" prep that happens: pilot flies, engies buff or spanner out kerosine damage, gunners run around loading their guns with preferred. It just changes it from a option to a responsibility.

Of course, after a gun is used, it never will stay empty: the last shooter will load their first ammo as soon as it empties or reloads.

In all, any problems from starting with empty guns can be solved with minor changes to player strategy.