Corner CAM or MINIMAP

[Tropo]

hey guys

i have been playing the game for a while and i feel it really needs a miini map in the bottom right hand corner

i know most games these days and in the passed have had them top right

thanks and love tropo

[Dutch Vanya]

The other day i remembered this game has a compass type thing. I NEVER use it, and honestly i wouldn't want a minimap either, I like navigating by sight and sound alone, that's one of the many things that makes this game so unique to me.

[RearAdmiralZill]

I too feel it will take away a lot from the requirement to bring up your map in-match, which while "most games" have one, I don't feel fits into Guns. Any person using that map for strategy makes himself vulnerable, so its generally not done during an engagement. If a mini-map was there, spotted ships would always give their facing in addition to position, and would take away from piloting.

[Coldcurse]

If you play the game long enough. You won't need a minimap.

[redria]

The other day i remembered this game has a compass type thing. I NEVER use it, and honestly i wouldn't want a minimap either, I like navigating by sight and sound alone, that's one of the many things that makes this game so unique to me.

The compass in the top is actually pretty useful. It is nice to call out compass directions to an ally when there are no spots yet, or you just caught a glimpse of something. It is nicer to say "enemy west" than to look at your ally, compare their location to the location of the enemy you just saw, and tell them "on your back-right...ish".
Additionally, if you can't visually find something that is spotted (or your ally) it does tell you the vertical level of the ship in comparison to yours, which can be helpful.
The compass gives a nice reference to share with allies and to use for location, if you get use to it. ^.^

I too feel it will take away a lot from the requirement to bring up your map in-match, which while "most games" have one, I don't feel fits into Guns. Any person using that map for strategy makes himself vulnerable, so its generally not done during an engagement. If a mini-map was there, spotted ships would always give their facing in addition to position, and would take away from piloting.

Using the map to determine facing is probably one of the more underutilized features. If an enemy ship is in one of your blind spots but is spotted, you can use the rectangle to give you a rough idea of which way they are turned, and a quick look at the map tells you which way they are facing so you can position yourself to have the advantage first. I am always quite happy to be directly above or below an enemy ship, because I usually feel like I can get from there to a position where I start firing first.
That said, a minimap would obscure some of your view, which would be bad. So there is that.

If you play the game long enough. You won't need a minimap.

I'm pretty sure Tropo, who is level 12/13/14, has probably played at least twice as many games as you coldcurse. Check who the poster is before you bring up experience.

[Zyankalium]

Maybe a minimap as a new Pilot Tool?

[Thomas]

I've actually desired a mini-map, but I feel it might make the game too easy. This mostly stems from me wanting to know which way my enemies are facing, and it's always handy to have a reference for the terrain during active combat. While in combat, you often lose direct line of sight to the enemy. They're either in a cloud or blocked by part of the hull. Maybe you're trying to sneak around a cliff towards them. You need to pop open your map to figure out their orientation. "If I suddenly show up around this corner/go through this cloud, am I going to get a face full of hwacha, or do I have some time while they try to turn?"

Or you're in canyons or paritan/labyrinth on a sniping spire and slowly backing up from an enemy, trying to keep them lined up as you and your crew all jump on guns and fire. Until you bump into terrain. Normally you'd know that this existed behind you, but you were being engaged and didn't have time to check the map or even look behind you. A minimap would have saved you the time and reminded you of that low building/hill you could have hydrogened over.


So as useful as it would be, it probably would make the game really really easy. I wouldn't have to pull up the map frequently to remind myself of terrain or verify spotted enemy position and orientation.

[Tropo]

thanks for reply guys

@ RearAdmiralZillyes it would subtract from the current game you are rite but im sick of those players thay i have to explain every thing too you know the one that flys to the wrong side of the map or even rite at the mark emeny

at the very least a minimap in spectate

@ dutch im accaully really happy with the compass i use it a bit not as much as map thou and the compass has a couple of issues like when your team mate is be hide you you can't tell how low he is

@redria i agree with rearadmiralzilles (name thats a long name) it could make the game a bit easier i offern use the current mini map to tell over the mic the pertion (metre away) direction there heading

@ thomas good points but im ok with making the game easier as its aready a hard game


so in closing point mini map that only have the map view and the emmny and team mate would just be a circle and not a directionally arrow

this would only be used by new players levels 1 to 10 everyone after that would lose the mini map ?

[Spud Nick]

I would like to see a hand held radar device that would replace the combat drums.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

I actually have to agree to Thomas and Zill - it wouldn't fit the minimalistic HUD, make the game easier and take away authenticity.

but im sick of those players thay i have to explain every thing too you know the one that flys to the wrong side of the map or even rite at the mark emeny

Agreed, the tutorials have to be reworked, but that's a problem of how you are being introduced to the game and not the game itself. If someone can't keep up at university you don't just lower the standards, you have to work on education before university.

@ thomas good points but im ok with making the game easier as its aready a hard game

Isn't that something achievable? It's not impossible to figure out how to play it, but it's also not too easy. A game should provide a challenge to master, shouldn't it? Some years back, beating a game or being good at it was something to be proud of, because they were difficult but also progress was achievable (in most of them). After you made it past a difficult situation you felt good because of it, you were happy. It isn't solely about being better than someone but to master hard times it gives you. Games today are getting easier and easier - no one feels good and happy after achieving something. Killstreaks are something that happens all the time to everyone, now where is the special reward in that?

so in closing point mini map that only have the map view and the emmny and team mate would just be a circle and not a directionally arrow

Would it show the map from a horizontal point of view or a vertical one? How big should it be in your opinion? Should it show the terrain like the "big" (actual mini) map or not? How do you differentiate the altitude of your teammate from yours on that map if the compass doesn't help you enough?

this would only be used by new players levels 1 to 10 everyone after that would lose the mini map ?

I'm not a new player - but I'm also not level 10. So the map would still be available for me - but not for players that quickly level one class although still not knowing the actual game (and yes, there are such players out there).

[Tropo]

ok so lets not bother about helpping noob because we have all learnt the game

[Coldcurse]

"I'm pretty sure Tropo, who is level 12/13/14, has probably played at least twice as many games as you coldcurse. Check who the poster is before you bring up experience."
Redria-

So because tropo has a higher skill level, it means that I'm unexperienced?
I am proud of myself that I came this far and fight among the elites.
The reason that I am not such high achievment levels is that I don't really mind about those levels, It's a game of skill and tactics after all.
Don't compare me to others because I have done alot in GoIo, more then you think.
Everyone is unique and has their own story, never compare one person with another by a quick look on their levels.
So please think of what you are saying because some people don't like it.
Do not think of his as an insult, I am just pointing out the fact that you should never judge that quickly.
Each person has their right to say something if it's related to the topic.

Back to the topic:
I think having a minimap mak this game feel more like an FPS then a team based game. Communication is key, meaning that you have to communicate with eachother to make things work. This also includes your positions and thinking together about tactics.
The minimap is in my point of view a little tool to let you know where the enemies are. If this is the case, then you wont rely on information from your crew or other captain anymore about the enemy position.
Reffering new players as "noobs" is a little low. We all had to learn the game, Each and everyone of us. We learned to communicate and map tactics. We didn't need a minimap for that. When I think back at the time when I started playing this game, I found it very enjoyable that everyone is really nice because of the great community that supports this game.
My opinion is that the minimap is an unnecessary feature. We never needed it and so will the generation after us.
Why would we wish to change the game experience by adding things that we don't need?

"@ thomas good points but im ok with making the game easier as its aready a hard game"
Tropo-

It's not that had at all. Communication is the key. Having a minimap doesn't make you better. Taking a look at a minimap costs you 5 seconds because they are so small. In half that time I pressed "M" and already know where you are going and what your plans are.
You're not paying attention to other parts of the game that can make the difference between a victory and a defeat.
I'll put them in a list for you to make it a bit Easier for you.
-What is the enemy ship loadout?
-What map are you playing on?
-Is your loadout countering their loadout?
-Does your crew have the right tools?
-Are you convidend that your pilot skill is good enough to win?
-Do you know everything about your ship to use it advantages?
- Do you know any tactics you can use?
-Is your teammate able to communicate?
-What is the morale on your ship?
-Do you need cloud cover with your current shiploadout, or do you need clear view?
-What are the basic cloud paths on the map and which direction is the wind blowing?

These ar all factors you should be thinking of when you definitly want to win in Elite matches. And this is not the full list.
But for small matches for new players you don't need to do this, you only need to do the following and the game will be a bit easier.
-Communicate with crew and other captain.
-Tell your crew what you are going to do, so hey can be ready for it.
-Tell the oher captain what you are going to attack and what he should do. (Don't start commanding like a dictatorship, just suggest to focus fire)
-Be a nice person. (earn respect by showing respect to others.)
-Never dive straight into the enemy team without an ally. (Unless you want to die in 10 seconds.)
-Make sure that your loadout makes sense. (Unless you are convidend that you will win with 5 minelaunchers.)
-Experiment wih your ship. (you will learn more by experimenting.)
-Know where you are flying. (press "M" if you dont know what your current position is. think of what you are going to do. Maps are very easy to remember if you played some matches on them.)
-Don't ram a galleon with a squid. (Obvious)

All of these points in the lists don't require a minimap. It's what I call "Positional awareness", you learn this as you play the game.

"but im sick of those players thay i have to explain every thing too you know the one that flys to the wrong side of the map or even rite at the mark emeny"
Tropo-

Teaching new players what to do is optional. Tropo you clearly describe a ship filled with people who played for the very first time or are just trolling you. This has nothing to do with a minimap. There always are tooltips at the top of the screen when you start playing the game, these can be turned off by going into the menu.
If you have problems with your ally, then fly behind him so you know when the enemy comes, you both are pulled into battle and he has no other choice to fight back or run.
You should know better Tropo, you're the one that created most of the training days.

"Agreed, the tutorials have to be reworked, but that's a problem of how you are being introduced to the game and not the game itself. If someone can't keep up at university you don't just lower the standards, you have to work on education before university."
RainerZuFall-

I agree and disagree with rainer. I agree with you because this should be explained in the tutorials. But I disagree with you because I think you should make this clear thefirst time you play as pilot. Maybe Showing the gametips above your screen when you first play the game in a more obvious color. The more obvious color would trigger the player to test things out and exploring the game.

so in closing point mini map that only have the map view and the emmny and team mate would just be a circle and not a directionally arrow
Tropo-

Then what is the use of a minimap if you can't get the information you need. Only seeing the presence of the enemy isn't really helpfull. You only obtain the knowledge "oh they are there." but you don't know the height of their current position or what direction they are facing at.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

ok so lets not bother about helpping noob because we have all learnt the game

There is a difference between "helping" and "erasing everything from the game that provides a challenge, so no one needs help".

Let me try to put it in a metaphor: In Africa people are starving of hunger and thirst, they have technology and possibilities to care for themselves like we do. You either help them by showing ways to catch up on technology and teach them how to care for themselves or you could throw money in their general direction, which will mostly end up at the high society.

[ramjamslam]

I believe awkm addressed this question in a fireside chat some time ago and had some technical explanation of whether it fit into the world or not.  Does anyone remember seeing it?

[Velvet]

I agree a minimap is unnecessary, immersion breaking and potentially detrimental to gameplay.

As a now experienced player, I find pressing M to use the map is an instinctive part of my piloting; I do it constantly and I actually feel glancing down at the corner of the screen would be more distracting than a rapid M-tap - on top of this it would no doubt aversely affect my flying to have a chunk of my field of vision blocked on an already smallish monitor.

As for novice players; Not having a clue what I was doing to begin with greatly added to the mystery and pleasure I had initially playing this game and made possible the satisfaction of learning from others, gradually reaching a decent standard of play and, most of all, finally discovering the M key - and I wouldn't change that for anything.