Corner CAM or MINIMAP

[Tropo]

im not very impressed with some of the responce from other people in the comunity here

just jumped on to give some feed back should point out that i was not piloting in the match as it was lvl 1-3  tpye of match

sorry cold course for calling them noobs but to you want me to call them in experience players ?

realy disapoint that i have taken my time to give feed back and people have jump on and try to attck me and claim that i don't know how to communicate after sessuly winning tourments and stuff like winter fest which was my ship and some other random person i didn't know each time

aslo i spend a lot of time teaching people so don't try and look down on my this with your upper nose crap just here to give muse feed back don't need some silly agurement when i come and post my ideas

@coldcoure rainerzufall ok so lets not bother about helpping noob because we have all learnt the game
that comment was the end of the convertions it was also intend to be sicasting because i felt like you guys where really giving me a hard time

@coldcoure  Quote

    "I'm pretty sure Tropo, who is level 12/13/14, has probably played at least twice as many games as you coldcurse. Check who the poster is before you bring up experience."
    Redria-

So because tropo has a higher skill level, it means that I'm unexperienced?
I am proud of myself that I came this far and fight among the elites.
The reason that I am not such high achievment levels is that I don't really mind about those levels, It's a game of skill and tactics after all.
Don't compare me to others because I have done alot in GoIo, more then you think.
Everyone is unique and has their own story, never compare one person with another by a quick look on their levels.
So please think of what you are saying because some people don't like it.
Do not think of his as an insult, I am just pointing out the fact that you should never judge that quickly.
Each person has their right to say something if it's related to the topic.


it did sound like you where trying to put me down claimingthat i need a mini map its in feed back and the feed bac might not even be for me im  only posting because i thought it would improve the game and player retentions

@coldcoures Back to the topic:
I think having a minimap mak this game feel more like an FPS then a team based game. Communication is key, meaning that you have to communicate with eachother to make things work. This also includes your positions and thinking together about tactics.
The minimap is in my point of view a little tool to let you know where the enemies are. If this is the case, then you wont rely on information from your crew or other captain anymore about the enemy position.
Reffering new players as "noobs" is a little low. We all had to learn the game, Each and everyone of us. We learned to communicate and map tactics. We didn't need a minimap for that. When I think back at the time when I started playing this game, I found it very enjoyable that everyone is really nice because of the great community that supports this game.
My opinion is that the minimap is an unnecessary feature. We never needed it and so will the generation after us.
Why would we wish to change the game experience by adding things that we don't need?

you have rased some point in topic oready feel like you just post for the sake of it how eva key thing here is when you can communicate and some time you cant do this othern its some one that can't speak english i have no problem with that how eva there no multi langue to help me
the over devil in the room is the player that comes in to the lobby and mute everyone because his ship in on skpe and team speak

if you haven't ment them and trust me i have played over 800 matchs in the begineer area i spend 4 hours in there every week is the captain that won't listen about load outs and won't listen to team mates and they will swear at you when you pm them with advise

i have started to find these people in the normal lobbys now so they have mic and eyes and ears and there not using two of those

@coldcources It's not that had at all. Communication is the key. Having a minimap doesn't make you better. Taking a look at a minimap costs you 5 seconds because they are so small. In half that time I pressed "M" and already know where you are going and what your plans are.
You're not paying attention to other parts of the game that can make the difference between a victory and a defeat.
I'll put them in a list for you to make it a bit Easier for you.
-What is the enemy ship loadout?
-What map are you playing on?
-Is your loadout countering their loadout?
-Does your crew have the right tools?
-Are you convidend that your pilot skill is good enough to win?
-Do you know everything about your ship to use it advantages?
- Do you know any tactics you can use?
-Is your teammate able to communicate?
-What is the morale on your ship?
-Do you need cloud cover with your current shiploadout, or do you need clear view?
-What are the basic cloud paths on the map and which direction is the wind blowing?

These ar all factors you should be thinking of when you definitly want to win in Elite matches. And this is not the full list.
But for small matches for new players you don't need to do this, you only need to do the following and the game will be a bit easier.
-Communicate with crew and other captain.
-Tell your crew what you are going to do, so hey can be ready for it.
-Tell the oher captain what you are going to attack and what he should do. (Don't start commanding like a dictatorship, just suggest to focus fire)
-Be a nice person. (earn respect by showing respect to others.)
-Never dive straight into the enemy team without an ally. (Unless you want to die in 10 seconds.)
-Make sure that your loadout makes sense. (Unless you are convidend that you will win with 5 minelaunchers.)
-Experiment wih your ship. (you will learn more by experimenting.)
-Know where you are flying. (press "M" if you dont know what your current position is. think of what you are going to do. Maps are very easy to remember if you played some matches on them.)
-Don't ram a galleon with a squid. (Obvious)

All of these points in the lists don't require a minimap. It's what I call "Positional awareness", you learn this as you play the game.

at thins point you are not adding any thing to the convertion other then a weak atemped to put down one of the nicest guys in the game tropo if you haven't ment me in game yet then mabye you should

@coldcourse not happy with this convertions i don't think your commnet where directed correctly and i have taken huge offencce im disapointed because you are wearing a ca badge and this is my frist in counter with you and im not pleased i request that you think about what you say before posting think of the out come

this whole time it feels like you are acttcking me persanl and not here to help improve feed back

[Tropo]

thanks velet good post mate

yeah you guys are probly rite

[GeoRmr]

We have a map, some people may like a smaller persistent one for convenience, I'm fine with this as it doesn't alter the gameplay in any way - if muse decide to add one that's fine just so long as there is a toggle to turn it off, personally I prefer less UI for immersion.

Look Ma, I did it! I summed up this entire thread without writing a huge wall of text or insulting people!

Edit: @Zill I tap the map all the time when engaging (while gunning and piloting) to check ship heading and distance - I'm surprised that you think it makes you considerably vulnerable, I find I only need to look for less than half a second to get information from it, at about the same convenience and distraction it would take to look at a screen corner. I have bound it to scroll click which makes it very accessible - it may be more challenging and distracting for people who keep it bound to M.

[redria]

Look Ma, I did it! I summed up this entire thread without writing a huge wall of text or insulting people!

Wait, isn't that passively aggressively insulting people by pointing out that you didn't?

 

But yeah, pretty much what Geo said.

[Thomas]

I wouldn't mind the option to have a mini-map instead of a full map. Maybe if you hold N or something a smaller map appears with roughly the same information as the full map, only with a radius of 500 meters or so around the ship. This won't take up the whole screen and prevent you from controlling the ship like holding M, which are the biggest downsides.

Having a mini-map up there the whole time would be very useful and I'm sure people would get used to it to the point it wouldn't be a distraction. However, it would likely replace the compass at the top, since a lot of the information would be easy to represent on the mini-map (stick some directions on it and have some dots around the edge for ships that are outside of the mini-map area).

It would be kind of a crutch though. It'd be easier to tell distances to ships and direction of travel, since those things aren't always that obvious when you're on a moving ship yourself. You'd rarely have to bring up the map at all, unless the mini-map didn't have ship orientation, which is the only reason I'd ever want to have it. Essentially I think the point is that it might be -too- useful. I'm not totally against that, but it's just something to keep in mind.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Edit: @Zill I tap the map all the time when engaging (while gunning and piloting) to check ship heading and distance - I'm surprised that you think it makes you considerably vulnerable, I find I only need to look for less than half a second to get information from it, at about the same convenience and distraction it would take to look at a screen corner. I have bound it to scroll click which makes it very accessible - it may be more challenging and distracting for people who keep it bound to M.

It certainly takes more then just looking at a minimap to get information like that, and relies on spots. While I have done that in the past, I don't do it nearly as often nowadays. Predicting movements is easier I guess. I generally use the map for tactics, and have it up for many seconds to pick a best approach or see what my team is doing, thus the vulnerability if I were doing so in an engagement.

Remapping it is certainly viable, though something I just haven't done.

[Tropo]

thanks geo man thats what the feed back is about

also no one uses the range find and tecaily that made the game easier in order to help people

[Coldcurse]

@coldcoure rainerzufall ok so lets not bother about helpping noob because we have all learnt the game
that comment was the end of the convertions it was also intend to be sicasting because i felt like you guys where really giving me a hard time

May I notify you that Your Comment "ok so lets not bother about helpping noob because we have all learnt the game" is actually the insulting one here.
I on't understand your kind of humor but alot of people will think of this as an insult because they don't know alot of the game yet and you already catagorise them as "noobs".
Please be more carefull at making "jokes" if they all look like this.

@coldcoure  Quote

    "I'm pretty sure Tropo, who is level 12/13/14, has probably played at least twice as many games as you coldcurse. Check who the poster is before you bring up experience."
    Redria-

So because tropo has a higher skill level, it means that I'm unexperienced?
I am proud of myself that I came this far and fight among the elites.
The reason that I am not such high achievment levels is that I don't really mind about those levels, It's a game of skill and tactics after all.
Don't compare me to others because I have done alot in GoIo, more then you think.
Everyone is unique and has their own story, never compare one person with another by a quick look on their levels.
So please think of what you are saying because some people don't like it.
Do not think of his as an insult, I am just pointing out the fact that you should never judge that quickly.
Each person has their right to say something if it's related to the topic.


it did sound like you where trying to put me down claimingthat i need a mini map its in feed back and the feed bac might not even be for me im  only posting because i thought it would improve the game and player retentions

First of all, it's coldcurse not coldcoure. thank you very much.

This part of text is just explanation for Redria who already started to place me into the section "Unimportant posters" because you just have higher achievement levels. Just as response of her telling me that I'm inexperienced I replied back to her to make her understand that everyone has his own experience. Also please make sure to read the second last line. If you can't find it then here is a quote.

Do not think of his as an insult, I am just pointing out the fact that you should never judge that quickly.

The following thing you typed was really hard to read for me because I think anger was rushing through your body.

you have rased some point in topic oready feel like you just post for the sake of it how eva key thing here is when you can communicate and some time you cant do this othern its some one that can't speak english i have no problem with that how eva there no multi langue to help me
the over devil in the room is the player that comes in to the lobby and mute everyone because his ship in on skpe and team speak

if you haven't ment them and trust me i have played over 800 matchs in the begineer area i spend 4 hours in there every week is the captain that won't listen about load outs and won't listen to team mates and they will swear at you when you pm them with advise

i have started to find these people in the normal lobbys now so they have mic and eyes and ears and there not using two of those

I understand that you have played over 800 matches, you're one of the original training captains.
As I also noted before in other posts in the actual training captain topics.
"Not everyone wants to learn, but we offer help who asks for help."
Sometimes it's better to let people in beginners matches figure out the game themselfes. And yes thee are people who don't give a damn about others, But they excist and they always be somewhere. I've learned not to take things heavily because if I did, then I would be in a mental depression. If you have any trouble of people starting to swear at you, then use that little fancy report feature.

Coldcurse:
All of these points in the lists don't require a minimap. It's what I call "Positional awareness", you learn this as you play the game.

Tropo:
at thins point you are not adding any thing to the convertion other then a weak atemped to put down one of the nicest guys in the game tropo if you haven't ment me in game yet then mabye you should

I am not putting you down. The two lists are items that I reveal to get a conclusion. It is focussed on the topic and not at you. I was making a list of things that turns defeat into victory. This is nothing related to you.
Also "Positional Awareness" means that you know where you are. You learn this as you play the game for some time.
And yes I have met you in-game, and I know you are a great guy. I am also one of the training captains.

@coldcourse not happy with this convertions i don't think your commnet where directed correctly and i have taken huge offencce im disapointed because you are wearing a ca badge and this is my frist in counter with you and im not pleased i request that you think about what you say before posting think of the out come

this whole time it feels like you are acttcking me persanl and not here to help improve feed back

My comments are not attacks. Reading all of youre reactions (which was damn difficult with mising words and letters) makes me think you were not reading everything I said. The fact that you react in this kind of way gives me the feeling you just were angry and needed to shout at something. If you did pay atention to what I said, which is.

You should know better Tropo, you're the one that created most of the training days.

I was reffering to you getting angry at people who don't listen. But in every game you have some people who just derp around and ruin things, being mad at thm doesn't fix the problem. And when I saw:
@ RearAdmiralZillyes it would subtract from the current game you are rite but im sick of those players thay i have to explain every thing too you know the one that flys to the wrong side of the map or even rite at the mark emeny.
I got a bit disappointed. You are one of the very first generation of training captains and you should know these things.

The post was not a way to attack you. It was a disagrement on the topic if we needed a minimap or not.
You seemed to take it as an heavy insult. It is not. I clearly mak my point why we shouldn't need the minimap, but you were thinking that I was charging at you.
I am sorry that you think you were talked down and attacked.
But I will not change my posts.

I hope to have ended our conversation between us with the minimap idea and your confusion about my post.
If you want me to explain things to you then feel free to add me on skype.
skypename: bobvanelburg

[RearAdmiralZill]

I'd like to put a reminder that we need to keep these things civil, and non-pointed at other users. Lets get back on the topic at hand.

[Coldcurse]

I think the minimap has no value to the game if it does not bring as much information as the actual map.
On the actual map you can atleast see the direction and and detail. on the minimap you would only see dots that do not indicate the direction of the ship, only their pressence. this will make the minimap unwanted. That someone said that using the map makes you vulnurable is totally a lie. You have 3 crewmembers that can perfectly see, if an enemy ship flies by then at least someone spotted it. also looking at the map doesnt take that long, just 5 seconds is good enough to make a plan. you also get a big map before the game so you get to see the map before you play it. The same features of the minimap is also implemented into the compass that you can find in the top part of your screen. it includes alot of things. This will make the minimap just a diferent compass. I have played over 1000 matches and I never had the feeling that I needed a minimap.

[GreyTea]

There is kinda a mini map already in the game,

on the top of the screen where the bar for compass is the opposing ships appears as blips on the compass i believe this is very useful as it tells you the general direction when they are not in visual also you have the aid of battle drums that tell you that the opposing ships are in your proximity,

This adds to the environment and feel for the game, you are entering the canyon and the clouds roll in no one has a spot, then you hear the slow rhythmic drums, alerting you of danger,
*am assuming mini map would only work after being spotted*.  So there is already a feature in the game that makes it so easy that some want it removed, You call for eyes out knowing they are close, spotted northeast you look  that way and there is a blip on the compass now telling you the direction *without  hud clutter in a corner blocking precious vision imagine all the complaints about a blind spot*..  and the blip turns from solid to an outline if you lose visual so you have the last known location,

So with all that being said a mini map is not needed at all you have all the tools already, spyglass for visual spotting, drums in case you haven't spotted and they are close, and blips on the compass if you do manage to spot,  explain to them the featured you have without pressing tab, lets not mention the full screen map that takes a a fraction of a second to look at, valuable time but worth it, i would rather have a second of tab map *yes i know the lockup* to get more detail of pinpoint position than more clutter i do not need for feature i already have and is not an improvement,

People are new so they well not go off instinct knowing the maps the routes people take weather to go high or low, stick close communicate tell there crew load outs and positions, it comes with practice playing the game being a pilot is not for everyone and those who have flew a long time am sure would never call it easy. so think back to when you started how many mistakes where made how many matches lost, then think of well i started telling people what to bring asking about weapons to take, and how you naturally became one of the most insightful players in the game, and you help new players and old i know over the time i have played you have shown me plenty of things so i am not questioning your experience or knowledge of the game and i know everything i said above you already know, but people do not learn how to be good at the game in 1 match, especially piloting, level does not equal skill is a common thing said now but imho i don't think it ever did it is matches played and time spent.

TLDR: Minimap clutter that is not needed.we have better implements already,

[Tropo]

coldcourse i don't think you have spent engouth time on the game to be commenting

over the last day i had beteen 8 and 10 people come up and say they thought it was a good idea but they didn't wanna post because it was cleanly a place for people to have a go and rage tropo

make none to little sence to try and rage me or put me down

i have never seen coldcourse in game i asume you are just a bad fourm troll i would rather if you don't post crap about me in future

to clean up the noob commenr coldcoure you are a fucking noob fuck off

[Milevan Faent]

As this is now a flamer topic, I think it's time we all asked for this to just get closed.

[Rainer Zu Fall]

Guys, please calm down. Let's stay focused on the facts, don't get emotional about it. It's a game and you just have different opinions, end of story. No need to insult, rage or swear.
Please stay on topic.

[Ariden]

Hmm, good points Coldcurse. However I have a few questions about the points you make.

I know you value communication as I have seen from reading your previous posts however some thing you don't seem to understand is that the captain requires self-assurance and direction in order to fly confidently. The captain often makes the critical decisions and plans: rather than having someone on their crew scream "TURN LEFT, THERE'S ANOTHER SHIP BESIDE US!" It is the captain who uses logic and planning, and although the crew members can participate (of course), they are ultimately and usually not the ones who follow the decision-making process. I'm not sure if you have been in a real competitive match such as us SAC members have, but this is a perfect example of decision-making being key among the captains. We gather everyone in a party HOWEVER it is only the captains who are allowed to speak - and the crewmates only under strenuous conditions. Why is this? Because crewmates are mostly specialized, not in captaining, but in engineering and gunning. It is the captains who have experience, who know what to do under what conditions. It is the gunner who knows what ammo to bring for a certain gun. It is a engineer who knows what to buff and what to fix with priority.

Moving on. You seem to think that a mini-map would consist of exactly the same that a normal map pressing the M button would consist of. My suggestion is that the mini map wouldn't consist of tiny dots you would need to squint to see. Rather, it would contain a basic overview of the map where the ships are obviously shown and can be easily detected to the naked eye. Secondly, you seem to think that a minimap would be able to show every ship at all times. A minimap would show only the ships that are spotted. I'd appreciate it if you would consider a redesigned map as an additional implement to the game.

Also, in response to GreyT - and this is just a suggestion - perhaps there can be an option where you can disable it on and off as the ratio of captains who think it is a good idea is 50/50? Personally I would love to give it a try, it is not needed in my case however I can see that it would be useful to save time. Obviously a plan can be previously made by pressing M, but in a situation where you are actually attacking the enemy it is good to know which way their ships are turning, as I have been in many encounters where a situation has changed in the blink of an eye and I was too distracted with helm tools and such to realize it.

As this is now a flamer topic, I think it's time we all asked for this to just get closed.

Please do not presume such things, obviously this topic got off on the wrong foot but I think Tropo has made some very insightful posts and I would love for other players to consider them, rather than people trying to mock him for his attempt to help this be a better game. Thank you!