Artemis

[Thomas]

Well there's always the option to give it no AOE damage. Make it need to hit components directly. They've even made it easier (slightly) to do so at range. While it's fun to pop on burst ammo and take out 2-3 engines on a squid with a few shots, giving it no AOE damage would make the burst useless on the gun (except for the extra ammo).

This would make it a little trickier to use for newer players, but at the same time it's one of the easiest guns to use as is. Reducing or removing it's ability to take out multiple components at a time makes the gunner have to choose -which- component to take out at a time. So it could still do damage and disable, but it'd take more skill to pull off effectively.

Just a thought. I'm still ok with the weapon as it is.

[Byron Cavendish]

Well again, that's what its meant to do disable, its not doing much else. I don't really think the aoe is that big, even at max range, being the giver and receiver I've seen a lot of it. It's just that when 3-6 Artemis hit you, well ya you'll lose everything, which is the whole point.

[geggis]

Byron did you catch the question in my last post?

[Byron Cavendish]

My gunner uses burst or lesmok, my two engies bring burst, and for many reasons. Touching ammo is really dangerous, it affects every gun. And I addressed the aoe in my earlier post.

[Feast on Thrones]

People want to more clouds when there are so many already? .... ... ... Really bad idea, dont even give Muse that idea, the amount of clouds at the moment are ridiculous especially as beacon flare gun is buggy as heck.

 On my sister junker to Byron since I dont have the hades and instead carronade downstairs I have 3 engi pilot junker with bottom engi with greased for the carro. Upstairs artemis are instructed to bring burst. So there is more killing power downstairs with increased rate of fire but still maintaining the disable power.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

According to Wilson's notes Artemis has 130° horizontal arc (65 in both directions). That means that artemis has vertical arc second only to Beacon Flare gun and better arcs than ALL OTHER GUNS.
Flamer 120°; Carrorade 110°; Gatling 100°; Scyla 80°; Echidna 100°; Banshee 120°; Mercury 30°; Hades 70°; Gun arc <90° no trifecta on Pyra  or Junker (you break Pyra's trifecta the easiest by dealing damage & going counter-clockwise around pyra). Artemis junker is te build that has the easiest time keeing trifecta - junker is 2nd toughest ship (a single gatling takes more than 2  up to 3 full clips clips to break junkers hull! - the reson brawling mobula can murder a junker is becouse 2 gatlings can murder junker's armor in 1/3 of the time with 2 gats), it has second best turning rate and you have to bonus of artemis having better horizonatal arcs than any other ship. Running tri- or quadfecta is always risky. Or at least untill the moment enemy is without things he can hurt you with.

So what if Artemis only works with 1 ammo type. That holds true for almost every light weapon.

Also: I have distinctly in my memory of used to having only 35 explosive damage a few months ago.

3-6 burst shots yes. That is 1 voley! from this build. You are instantly dissabled the moment you are in arc&range&outside cover. Besides you are on a junker. When enemy closes on you just turn on the brawly side and murder them becouse they can't fight back.

[Thomas]

I don't think the artemis by itself is that overpowering. Of course when you start stacking them up it can get serious, although that's generally true with any weapon. The big thing about the artemis is that it's easy to use and works over a vast range. The only gun that covers a larger area is the flare gun, and that's not quite a killing tool.

If we don't want arming times or damage touched, why not just choke down the turning radius? The same thing happened to the field gun, which is still very effective at all ranges; it just takes a little more effort to use. Chop down the horizontal and a little vertical and you make it easier to approach a ship with these these while reducing their effective trifecta area.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

I want to see 6 Scyla, 6 Gatling, 6 Banshee or 6 echidna build win in a competitive match (at least 1 of those doesen't work in this kind of trifecta). Anyone doing so will get mad props for it.

[Thomas]

I've seen double versions of some of those that are more effective than a double artemis. Six Scyla would end your ship so fast you'd forget your name. Echidna might be able to pull that off as well, if a little slower. These guns hit pretty hard and can power through the armor even if they're not effective against it, especially with those kind of numbers. 6 gatling could also be pretty devastating. At that point your unable to keep your armor up let alone your components. 6 Banshee is similar to the other explosive weapons, just with a tad more fire added on.


The only reason most of these don't crop up is because it's easier to toss on two complimenting guns and kill the enemy in the same amount of time (and usually faster) than more guns of a single type.

The other reason they don't pop up in most builds is because they're not as easy to use. 6 mortar is devastating, but you have to get in range, try to get the angle just right and have your gunners hit their mark. If the enemy chooses to move, the slow moving shots have a harder time connecting. I could actually see the gatling gun being pretty effective if you can get in range and have sharp shooters on board.

What makes the artemis capable of being used in these quantities is it's easy of use. You can almost effortlessly line up your shots, disabling your opponent and slowly working them down (of course if you get 6 shooting the same target, it's not quite as slow). Since they're disabled, they're easier to keep hitting.

It's not the power of the gun, it's the ease of it's use. You take away it's trifecta (reduce turning arc) and it's still a good disabling weapon, but it becomes more difficult to use in all situations. It's essentially in the same boat as the field gun was.

[geggis]

It's not the power of the gun, it's the ease of it's use. You take away it's trifecta (reduce turning arc) and it's still a good disabling weapon, but it becomes more difficult to use in all situations. It's essentially in the same boat as the field gun was.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons I suggested reducing its turning speed further, or (preferably for me) making burst rounds reduce turning speed: it doesn't do away with the ability to gain trifectas but does drastically reduce how easy they are to achieve and maintain. It also has the side effect of making close quarter combat trickier, especially with faster moving ships. This change would make heatsink a very desirable ammo to bring along too. I wouldn't like to change the turning arc limits but I think a turning rate tweak, whether it be to the gun itself or its predominant ammo type (burst), could open more options and create a little more risk with the weapon without diminishing its power. I wouldn't object to a little jitter for super long ranges either, just to open heavy clip up. Edit: Hmm, that might render Lesmok useless though, if that's a problem.

[Spud Nick]

I want to see 6 Scyla, 6 Gatling, 6 Banshee or 6 echidna build win in a competitive match (at least 1 of those doesen't work in this kind of trifecta). Anyone doing so will get mad props for it.

Somebody say six banshees?

[Coldcurse]

6 lumberjacks... a horrifying scene if your the enemy.
6 hwachas.... it's raining rockets, the light will clense you, dont even bother repairing that hull.

[Chrinus]

I'd just like to mention that if we destroy the arcs on this weapon, we throw the Mobula yet again into the same position as the old spire. She needs those defenses to survive long enough as it is. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but watch how far toned down it goes: if they cant bifect their sides at long range you kill the most competitively viable Mobula build.

[Coldcurse]

I'm currently using a pyramidion with a front left gatling gun and a front right artemis.

it gives a really good support.

[Thomas]

Well I'm not saying reduce the arcs down to field gun levels, just crank it down a tad. Make it a wee bit harder to get those trifectas lined up. Right now you have a massive area for even a pyramidion with full artemis. In theory you could actually get all 4 firing on the same target.


(Showing just how far the artemis can turn)



Horizontally, there's not a single gun that comes close to the amount of area it covers. When you toss in the up and down angles, the only gun that beats it in the volume covered is the hades, but the lack of horizontal makes it really difficult for a trifecta on most ships.