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geggis:
If I were to make a few possible suggestions, based mainly off my distaste of burst being the preferred/sensible ammo type for the Artemis:

1) Increase jitter slightly to make heavy clip useful for surgical shots on engines and specific guns at range or,
2) decrease rate of fire slightly to make greased a possibility or,
3) reduce turning speed further to bring it more in line with the Merc's reduced arcs without sacrificing its ability to gain trifectas. Gaining and holding a trifecta would take more time due to the slower arcs, and would become especially restrictive at closer ranges just like the Merc (and without bringing arming times into it). The time commitment getting a vector would make heatsink more attractive and possibly greased to quickly unleash a salvo so you can hop off to attend other matters.

The second suggestion may be a little heavy handed (or too slight to matter) but the third seems quite reasonable unless I'm overlooking something. The first suggestion would make extreme long range disabling much trickier and give that territory back over to the Merc.

Or alternatively make burst reduce turning speed? Or do less AoE damage?

Mattilald Anguisad:

--- Quote from: Byron Cavendish on December 10, 2013, 03:15:41 am ---Any ship with a trifecta will be strong. Two gats and a mortar on a mobula is a lot more dangerous, or three hades on a mobula. Nothings really changed with the Artemis. Sure its annoying, and it disables, but it takes forever to whittle the hull down. There are a lot of weaknesses to the build. The only reason people are now noticing, or now complaining, is because not everyone and their mother are taking gat/mortar. This all happened as soon as the game was balanced to create viable threats at close, mid and long range. Any nerfs to the artemis will put us right back to cookie cutter meta gat/mortar.

The issue is really with the players. They've gotten so used to charging straight at ships with impunity for a close range brawl. You've got to get out of that mind set and adapt. There is plenty of competitive material from the last few weeks showing triple arti junkers being used, and many times of them being wrecked. Every time they were wrecked, it was due to smart teams doing smart things. And likewise, the artemis is working really well with the Gents because we stay immobile, we go high, and we use open lanes to shoot. We could change guns, and change tactics anytime and still succeed. It's about knowing what to do with your build, the issue isn't the gun itself.

With any ship, any build, look at it's weaknesses. An artemis can't shoot up, and it needs time to target areas. If it's just hitting the balloon or hull it's really doing nothing. You need to use terrain, or different elevations. Go high, take a mobula. Stay out of 1330 meters, take a lumberjack. Go fast with a squid, take a carronade. There are proven easy ways of defeating this build, and it's up to each player to make his wins happen. Lamenting over the fact that you can't just shrug off artemises as you charge in a straight line at them isn't going to help.

--- End quote ---

How am I supposed to go up and above the triple art junker when you are camping at the flight celing? Literaly the only way we could get any kills on you was by ramming you to death. and we used EVERY bit of cover the Fjords provides to try and get close to you.
The only reason we managed to "wreck" (as you expresed yourself) your build in TSR16 becouse you weren't camping at flight ceeling. You need expert LJ gunners to hit targets hiding behind cover at LJ's max range, and our both Gunners have been absent last 2 weekends. Artemis on the other side is so easy that even I hit 4/5 shots on moving targets.

I'm also sick of getting advice to snipe, to deal with the crap like this. I hate playing sniping matches. I hate repairing, I hate piloting, and I hate gunning in sniper matches. As if sniping wasn't entrenced in the meta enough.

Mobula needs to use it's everical maneuverability to keep out of enemy arcs, becouse it's slow and can't turn very well. If enemy is at the bottom of the map and is sporting carrorades or at the top of the map and sporting LJ or Artemis you can't break arcs verticaly, and then you are forced to either merc with 2 mercs or are huge tasty target. Squid has great horizontal maneuverability, but is somewaht lacking in vertical maneuverability + carrorade puts you into artemis arcs of fire. Squid has as hard time killing anyone alone as has triple art junker. Squid can be a distraction, but in high level play unless you force the OTHER junker to deal with something else, the other junker can gat artemis the squid easily enough (or carrorade artemis - squids have poor armor, you can blast thru their armor realy realy fast - heatsink is invaluable whaen it comes to dealing with squids). Dealing with entrencehd sextuple art build is possible, but enything we have had come up with so far is a soft cunter as opposed to a hard counter. It's a hard uphill struggle.

Byron Cavendish:
Okay but again, that's not a gun issue, that's a tactics issue. Sure the triple arti's were great at suppression (which is what they are supposed to do), but the double lumberjacks also did massive work. Either way, we're playing to the strengths of our build and strategy. The previous week you guys destroyed us with a pyra/mobula and it was absolutely brilliant because you used tactics and terrain to your build.

I understand it's frustrating, it's meant to be. That isn't a fluke. We could have done that all day, and wouldn't have killed you. We always try to bait a team into engagements we create. Any team will be successful when they determine the engagement.

Feast on Thrones:
If you look at the  Thralls/ Gent games in the last Sunday rumble you will see how effectively they use elevation to completely render the trip artemis useless. It was a very close game that Thralls could have won. If you have a blenderfish or even carronade pyramidion, as soon as you are on top of that junker its the end. I can only guess the Thralls had 2 people on that front carronade all the time at the rate it got rebuilt on Sunday and they were very effective at forcing both Gentlemen boats down splitting the fire whilst one recovered from the balloon disable.

On a separate point both Mattisamo and Chrinus have said the mobula is a good counter, and it truly is. The merc on the top means any attritional war will be won by the mobula since the extra piercing is nice. As Chrinus said and I will reiterate, the fact that the mobula is so spaced out, with components a long way from each; whilst being irritating to fix is invaluable against trip artemis where gunners on the attacking side have to hone in on the guns precisely and they will not be getting multiple component kills with one shot even with the artemis hit box getting bigger the greater the distance that the rocket travels. Mattisamo has is perfected, the question is what can take out the mobula? We saw Sac get ruined by that double gattling on a head on charge. It wins at long and short range. This is the question we should be asking :D how to kill Mattisamo :D

Byron Cavendish:
Ah how the meta shifts. Mark our words, this is evolution. Perhaps in a few months the carronade squid will be the answer to the mobula meta?

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