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Artemis

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Skrimskraw:
we countered it yesterday with a mobula, you can see it in the stream of the sunday rumble.

Mattilald Anguisad:
I'll still point out that it could easily murder our Pyra teammate when theyy focused on him.
Yes 1on2 tri art junker does suck like any other build in 1on2. when you have another 3art junker backing you up. Assuming both junkers have enough time to dissable you you don't stand a chance. Spire, junker,goldfish and galleon are pretty much out against artemis gun line- unless you have guners that can reliably hit outside artemis range with merc, LJ and h.Flak spam.
Mobula IS a reasonable-to-good counter since the guns are spread out and engines are outside artemis line of sight from front, mobula has best vertical mobility (witch is waht you need agains armenis with severely limited upward arc of fire - heck going up with a pyramidion saved us from 3art junker against Mad Hatters a couple of weeks ago when our frond and engines were dissabled).
I do think Artemis is OP, but very little (i would a: increase maximum upwards angle by 5° decrease horizontal arc by 5°bo both sides, decrease AoE size and damage no more than 10%, and then I think it would be just fine - or b: more heavily penalise direct hit explosive damage component [up to 50%] keep same shatter damage on aoe component, and keeo pther changes the same as in option a)

EDIT: Squid Mobula against double max artemis junker could work well too. Spitting your ship verticaly so they come at diffirent heighs, so junkers cant switch targets immediately, should help. It's waht we used aginst entranched artemis gun line on fjords.

Byron Cavendish:

--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on November 26, 2013, 04:51:52 pm ---In the world of spanner rebuilds the extra time between shots matters. Just because an artemis trifecta can beat you* doesn't mean it is op as there are plenty of counters. Vertical movement, long range disables, staying above arc, and allied help all come to mind.

Hit box size / the way aoe effects it could be something to look into, perhaps have a seperate direct hit vs aoe hit hit box where the aoe hitbox is similar to the old size.

* Edit, to clarify. You in this situation means general you, not a specific player.

--- End quote ---

Yep. Certainly the trifecta arti is powerful, but op? No. As a heavy user of them on my team I can tell you it has glaring weaknesses. People have just gotten so used to short ranged brawling that they can't or don't want to believe other builds should be strong. The key to any successful team is to be aware of every build, and every builds counter. You can't just blindly rush a trifecta arti with brawl and hope to win. And it shouldn't be like that. Look at this last Sunday's Rumble. The Wolf Knights tried to charged the dug in Gents and failed. The Thralls thought outside the box, came up with a new mobula build, and schooled us. If a gun has a weakness (arti's vertical movement), you exploit it. That is how metas evolve.

Byron Cavendish:

--- Quote from: GeoRmr on November 26, 2013, 01:31:14 pm ---On another note, Artemis trifecta has been available for ages with roughly the same disable and kill potential that has today. It has not suddenly become op, people have just started using it and their opponents haven't heard of hydrogen or cloud cover.

--- End quote ---

This. It has more to do with the fact that the game was recently balanced less around strong brawl builds, but instead making short, mid, and long range all have viable options. This is forcing brawl teams to re-think how they engage, something that can be initially very frustrating.

Squidslinger Gilder:
Yeah I think the emphasis of this thread was not to say it is Op but to say it could use some slight tuning. Why it was originally in the dev section.

It can be seen as OP if you don't know how to counter it or if your teammate is a dingus and doesn't coordinate with you. New players would probably tear their eyes out in anguish against it. What I don't want is their anguish and cries of OP leading to another dramatic nerfing which makes the gun useless.

Slight reduction in AOE with turning so it can't get Trifectas as easily would probably be a decent move. That or a tad less killing power and focus it more on disabling like it was the last time it was buffed.

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